Ep 27 - Introvert vs Extrovert and Sensing vs Intuitive
The Myers Briggs personality assessment began over a century ago from a mother-daughter duo as their way of bringing Carl Jung’s work to life.
Today, it is known as one of the most scientifically-based assessments. What is its history and how can learning how we perceive the world help us to have deeper conversations?
Learn how to decipher between the first two letters of the "preferences." Extroverted versus Introverted and Sensing versus Intuitive.
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TRANSCRIPT:
David : So we're a week into the new Biden, Harris administration. And Mary, I'm curious to know how you're feeling.
Mary : Man last week was really intense. I think that that was like the best word for me and I have from my friends and family, I think that that's been shared. And I'm pretty moved by the fact that we have a female vice president that made me so moved. I was so emotional over that day and the days to come and still in that. It's just, I feel kind of like I'm sitting in a little bit of a new reality, it's weird, but it's so cool.
David : Yeah, I agree. I think that intense is the perfect word, even if it might be overused right now. Because, you know, the day of, the morning of a week ago, there was all this tension, I think, from everyone around the whole country, was there going to be a catastrophic event. teachers were not going to be showing the inauguration live just in case there was like, that's a decision that school boards made across the country.
Mary : And every viewer had to potentially put themselves in, like harm's way in that way that they could be viewing and something could happen. I mean, it was just there was so much uncertainty. And I think that is kind of interesting to think about how we sit with uncertainty and do we dive in? And do we watch or do we not watch, right?
David : So you start the day out with that kind of intensity, but then it flipped over and into a different kind of intensity. And I agree with you, when I was able to turn the TV on, we were all at work, we all gathered around the large TV, and we watched Kamala be sworn in. I literally got chills, like physical chills in my body. And my eyes wadded up, because I think it was just such a magical moment, all the way to the young, 23 year old black woman capturing so much of where we're all at as a country and just the most perfect way.
Mary : Amanda Gorman that was insane.
David : Yeah, all the way to the end of the evening, again, like, you know, trying to hold space for both sides, because clearly there's an intensity around people not seeing this presidency as legitimate right now, and anger towards that. And I know what that anger feels like, because those are the emotions that I felt, you know, four years ago, personally. So there's the intensity of all those things. But even just with musicians that played at the end, I think, captured so much of this intense moment. And I think that there are a lot of really cool things about it. Like, normally the inauguration is a big ball, but because of COVID that couldn't happen. And I think this format engaged more Americans in the inauguration, because we were all able to basically have a seat at the ball. And I think that that was really cool. And I hope that that's something that could carry on in the future when we're past COVID
Mary : Yeah, and I think that it seems so right that the word that we are resonating with the most is intense because if you listen to our episode last week, we talked about being a rare breed and both David and I quizzed as people that are qualified as emotional rare breed. So things feel really heightened for us, typically in our bodies, and that's just how we approach relationship and work and then through this episode that we're gonna have now as we dive more into, like knowing ourselves, the word intense makes me think of how we're both the feeling type within the Myers Briggs and that having that language or understanding in times like this, that self awareness really helps me to know how to go with the flow and not sink into anxiety too much or get overly, quite frankly, overly emotional or overly charged too.
David : Yeah. I think that when I think of the word intense, it's definitely more of that negative connotation, and I think rightfully so. And there's some positives to that word. Sure. But it makes me think of when I came across this article and story around Stephen Colbert, this past week, where he was telling the story about how he was one of 11 children and when he was 10, his dad and his next two brothers were killed in a plane crash. And so obviously crazy trauma, crazy amounts of grief. And he was just telling that story. And he said something he says he's come to love the thing he most wishes had not happened. So that's the quote, he has come to love, the thing he most wishes had not happened. And it's not that, you know, of course, you even hinted at this in the grief series, multiple times through the interviews and through our stories, that in no way shape or form did we want what caused the grief to have happened, and we would give anything to have those moments back or the people back that we lost. But at the same time, it's through the loss that added significance and value to that person's life, and what they've done in our lives. So the reason why, to me that this relates in the intensity is we do live in this intense moment, and I would give anything for us to not be in this intense moment, I would give anything to undo this past year, I wish COVID had not happened, right? And those kinds of things. However, I also think we are sitting in this moment of tension, where because of the tension, there is a value in embracing it and value embracing where we're at. And like I think of even the strained relationships I have around politics for me, of course, I'm going to do everything I can to unstrain those relationships. And I don't know if that's going to be possible or not. But I do hold out hope that maybe in the process of trying to unstrain those relationships, I actually might go deeper with those relationships than I ever could have without the tension. Does that make sense?
Mary : I don't think you could have put that more beautifully. I love hearing you think out loud in that way. Because like you said it reminds me of that sixth stage that David Kessler that was brought up multiple times in our grief series of meaning, right, and that it's a controversial one. And I feel like you're saying something that's kind of controversial, too. It's like it's controversial to be like, how is their meaning through death? How is their meaning through a pandemic through a race battle? Like, where's the meaning and all that and where’s the purpose? Maybe it just gives us the opportunity for depth that wouldn't have existed otherwise.
David : Well, Mary, you already kind of hinted that we're both feelers on the Myers Briggs and therefore we're, intensity is the right word. We're both also extroverts, which means part of the thing as we process out loud and in the interview, you're going to hear with Laura here in a second, we're going to talk about how well being an extrovert and being a feeler kind of sets us up to process our feelings and emotions out loud. And the podcast is a great format to do that. So thank you for the space for letting me process that out loud. both Mary to you and to our audience. And also just to introduce Laura Jackson. We're gonna split this up into two parts. So unpacking Myers Briggs, and the four different letters that all add up to the 16 personality types. It's such a rich conversation, it's a little bit long, and we wanted to make sure that we do go deep. So today we'll talk about introvert extrovert, as well as sensing and intuitive personality types.
Mary : Yeah, so this one's really information heavy. Tune in this weekend next to hear the full scope. And don't forget to check out our Instagram. We only have one more week. Gosh, actually not even. February 1 you guys so go to our Instagram, check out the new year know you giveaway. You can follow all of those participating to win a course on the enneagram, have a professional Myers Briggs test and actually have a consultation with our guest Laura, get a copy of the book rare breed and get a journal from my company five element. So check it out. And be sure to tag someone that you think emulates knowing themselves as we all continue to do this work.
Mary : We welcome you to explore the third place with us.
David : It is an invitation to the gray space, a space where deeper connections are fostered through challenging, empowering and engaging dialogue.
Mary : You will walk away with a deeper understanding of self equipped to engage with others in life's complex conversations.
David : Thank you for listening.
Mary : We invite you in to the third place
David : Everyone, just so excited to welcome Laura Jackson to talk through Myers Briggs.
Laura : Thank you. Thanks for having me.
Mary : Laura, can you give us a little bit of a background of yourself and how and why you're drawn to Myers Briggs in specific.
Laura : My background was in corporate sales. So for over 25 years, I was an outside salesperson, promoted to manager promoted to director. And the one thing I saw in my career was that companies succeeded or failed based on the way they treated their employees, and the strength of their leadership team and the strength of their culture. And it didn't really matter what the product or service was, if somebody is strong in culture and leadership, their company overall did better. So I did what you're never supposed to do. Late in my career, I quit. And I went a completely different direction, I figured I want to make an impact. I want to follow my passion. And that led me to coaching and training. And I was fortunate enough to land in a company that valued the person rather than the resume because my resume was 100% sales. And yet, my passion was 100% people. So since that time, I've been able to become certified in Myers Briggs, first and enneagram, and another platform for leaders called lions, lead, and several others, but those are the three I use most often. What I loved about Myers Briggs, was it really helped me understand myself in the context of how am I wired? So how do I see life in four different worlds? Like, what is my favorite world? How do I gather information? How do I process and just my general view of life? How do I approach life. And I think, for me, coming from a family where I was adopted, and I was really different than the other people in my family, it was the first time I felt like, I'm okay. And I've had other people when I've done this training. I actually had a guy not too long ago, who is a college professor. And he's written like 14 books. And when he did his Myers Briggs, he actually is the rarest of all the personality types 1% of the population, he came right up to me, big eyes, and he said, this has changed my world, I have to write a book on it. And I said, Yeah, I think it's been done. But that's the power of really understanding yourself. But beyond that, it's the power of understanding other people. So many times, we think that we are the way we are, and that everybody else is wrong. And yet, that's not the way it is. People are not right or wrong, they just are, who they are. And the more we can understand and bring that understanding into the workplace, the more work gets done, the more productive we are, but also the more harmonious the workplace becomes, because we stop seeing people as the enemy. And we start seeing them as someone with a gift that is not ours. That's why some of the Myers Briggs, they talk about gifts differing. So it's not gifts that are horrible, it's gifts that are differing. So that's why I got involved with it. I think it's a good baseline for any kind of team development. And even some of the big players like Patrick Lencioni, who wrote Five Dysfunctions of a team, Myers Briggs is one of the things that he suggests teams start with, facilitated by somebody who knows what they're doing. Of course, that's a pitch, but I do believe it. And then that helps to establish trust, because people began to understand themselves and others.
David : Yeah, I have an affinity towards Myers Briggs, probably because it was the first personality assessment I took. And it just gave me so much language, not only for me, but for other relationships that I could interact with. And that's what really drew me in is just, I could identify and put language around all of these pieces. And I think also just everything that you said, that is exactly this work of the third place is, we all bring our different perspectives and there's not this right or wrong. It's just different. You know, and in fact, it's beautiful because we're different and how do we embrace that and strength in teams, comes from the fact that we are different and complementing to one another. So therefore, one how we can understand ourselves gives us our own internal language, but then two, helps to give language for the other person As well as just the processing of the different styles.
Mary : So David and I did a deep dive to understand ourselves. And I guess that was probably two months ago now. And that was the first time I got to meet Laura and I learned so much about Myers Briggs, even though I had taken it in the past, it was really just the tip of the iceberg what I had known of it until our call that was supposed to be an hour turned two hours very easily, probably could have been four or five. One thing that you shared with me that I'd love for you to share with our audience is about the scientific approach that Myers Briggs has compared to some other assessments.
Laura : Sure, well, Myers Briggs, it has its roots actually way back, the original premise for personality started with the Greeks, and hasn't really changed that much since then. Then, in the 1920s, we had Carl young, who developed the theory of types, but it was mostly used in a clinical setting. So in the 1940s, Katherine Briggs and Isabel Myers - mother and daughter team, they were really interested in studying people. So they started taking Young's theory, and putting it into practical terms, which is the Myers Briggs Type Indicator that we know today. What I found fascinating, because I was able to go down to Gainesville, Florida, to the world headquarters, and actually study there for a week, get my certification. What fascinated me is they have a whole team of people, a whole company. All they do is validate the instrument. So they look at every question for validity. And what I mean by that is, how is someone who's a woman going to interpret this question, as opposed to a man? How is someone who's older or younger? Or someone from the south from the north, someone who is of a different race, a white, black, Latino, how are they going to interpret this? I don't know how they do that. But this is what they do. And they weigh the questions accordingly. So if something is understood, sort of universally, that question will actually be weighted higher in the final scoring than something where there's more ambiguity. And to me, I thought, this is fascinating. And even so, it doesn't mean that the original test that you get back is necessarily going to be your type, because we all have interpretations. So even there in this very official setting, with a trainer who's been doing this his whole life. There were still people who were mistyped. But yet, there was a process to help people walk through and they trained us with that process. How do you tell if you're answering a question based on maybe the way you're raised? Maybe it's the job you have. So there was a young man there, who tested as a T, which is the thinking preference. And it just didn't fit. But it was because he was in the Air Force. And so his job required him to think logically. And that process. When actually, as the week went on, he realized he was a feeling type, which is more people oriented. So once he realized this, then he was able to re type himself, and it fit much better. So it's a process. I've actually worked with people. And this is maybe a rabbit trail. But one of the things that concerns me is I see so many young people these days. It's so competitive, their parents are pushing them into activity after activity after activity. And as teenagers, they never have the opportunity to develop who they are. Because it's all about getting into the right college getting into the right program. And then they get to that age of majority, and they have no idea who they are. They've never had time to sit back and reflect on that. And I worked with a young man, when I first worked with him with Myers Briggs. He had no idea. He only knew one of his four type letters. And it took a month of coaching for him to start to see who he was. And in this case, David, he has the same personality type as you do, which is ENFP. But in his case, he was taking a course of study in accounting. Now imagine David, sitting behind a desk all day long, talking to nobody with headphones and numbers. And he was so depressed, and nobody could understand why. Well, once we did Myers Briggs, it just freed him. Because now he started to understand who he was, what he needed, what kind of environment, what kind of work, and I'm not blaming his parents, this is something parents are pushed to do now because they feel it's necessary. In order for kids to succeed, it's so competitive out there. But in a way, we do a disservice.
David : I think even with the enneagram being more popularized, lately, it's continuing just to embrace these ideas that we're all unique. And we think and feel and and we're just kind of figuring out how we process and perceive and give information. So give a breakdown of the different letters and how they are the parents how they do. I think, probably most people can relate to think or feel or an extrovert introvert, I know that those are the ones that I can most easily grasp just because, you know, they're words that we use on a regular basis. But, what are the pairs and how do they relate to each other?
Laura : Well actually think and feel is seemingly the most understood, but it's actually the most misunderstood at the same time. But we'll talk about that in a second. So the four are your favorite world, extraversion introversion. In our society, we're wired to be extroverted, it's set up for an extroverted life. So a lot of times people who are introverts feel that they are outliers, unnecessarily, because there's not a right or wrong, but we are an extroverted society. I actually had a young woman say to me one time, you know, I keep testing, sometimes extrovert, sometimes introvert, and she said, I know really inside. I'm an introvert. But I test as an extrovert, because that's what I want to be. So we had to have a conversation about that. It's really, how do you gain energy. An extrovert gains energy, from interaction with the outside world with other people. A lot of times, at the end of the week, even if they've had a exhausting week, they will want to have a beer with a buddy. Just to process their week, an introvert may want to go and have a beer, but at some point, they need to go back into themselves and process what happened internally. So that's the big difference. It has nothing to do with how social they are. I know extroverts who have absolutely no social skills. It has nothing to do with that. It's not preferential to be an extrovert. It's literally the way your brain is wired. And actually, studies have shown that different parts of the brain fire in an extrovert and an introvert when they're operating in their preference. So it's hardwired?
David : Well, I know that I kept thinking I was an introvert, but I kept testing as an extrovert and I'm and I came to you and like, this is wrong. I don't know what to tell you. I'm an introvert. And you help to explain that it's, it's that external processing. And I think where I was getting confused was introspection. Yeah, I do a lot of external processing. But then the space for introspection is something that I still crave. And I still need, but it follows lots of external processing. And then I can go away for a while. And I do crave, you know, one day a week where I'm completely by myself, but yeah, on my test, I'm a raging extrovert
Mary : a raging extrovert. I love that. Yeah. I'm off the charts, too, which, to me, I think was no surprise.
Laura : Yeah, I think for some people, the understanding is there. But I think all of us can use reflection time. It's something we don't do enough of as human beings, extrovert introvert, there is something about the pace of life. And that's probably another podcast. But there's something about the pace of life that we just feel we have to be on warp speed, when it would do us all good to take that time to reflect so you probably are a more balanced extrovert than most
Mary : it does feel like it's a North American culture thing, though. I mean, the working culture, the lack of encouraging siesta or other sort of built in ways of scheduling a day that encourage rest and restoration. I think that that's lacking as a whole and I'm sure that many would agree and how can we be energized without being so depleted all the time?
Laura : Yeah. Well, I know when I start to work with people, and they're not sure if they're introverts or extroverts, and if they're kind of on the cusp, because people say, Well, I'm an x, I'm in the middle, that's not possible, you're either one or the other, you might just be over, just Mary, like you in the s and n category. And as you age, hopefully, if you're developing yourself, you do develop your auxiliary more, to become more of a balanced personality, but it's like a preference you prefer one or the other. And one of the ways I know if someone's extroverted is, first of all, are they people, people, you know, do they just, you just see them, they have to be with people, they tend to have a very wide circle of friends. Maybe a few deep friends, but they know a lot of people. And sometimes they have a tendency to jump too quickly into activities without thinking about it. So they can become overscheduled. But they generally gain energy from interacting and involvement in events with people. And the one big kicker that I see is the processing out loud. People will say to me or introverts, well, you just need to go journal. And I think journaling is fine, I do that I cannot process and I'm an extrovert. I can't process by journaling. But I can talk to somebody for five minutes and say out loud to that person, what I would have written in a journal and figure it out, not what they say to you. It's the interaction, the energy you get from people, and where this becomes a problem. And this is why, you know, David, you were talking about doing this in high school, or college, sorry, and really not knowing what to do with it. So a lot of people take Myers Briggs, but there's no application they get with who they are. But they don't get how that works in the greater scheme of things. So how I see this a lot, and I may have mentioned this, when we were talking one on one. In business, an extrovert boss, or leader will come in thinking about something we'll talk to the first person at the first desk he sees, or she sees, start to talk about something because they're processing, but they're not done. And then they walk down the hall, stop in, and they continue to process. And this goes on all day long. So by the end of the day, half a dozen people have heard half a dozen different things. And what happens, at the end of the day, the processing is done. They come out and say I have an announcement, this is what's going to happen. And people think they've lost their mind. They're inconsistent. How can I believe anything they say? Because he told me this at nine o'clock? Well, he told me this at 1030. So what I've helped companies to do is say, Are you still processing? Or is this your final decision? It's so helpful. And companies who have adapted this, find it hysterical, because it becomes a part of the language of the company. Oh, you're still processing. And then they know that they're not going to take that as the, you know, gospel truth. It's just what it is.
David : Well, and you told me that story. And I think that that was the first time I was like, oh, okay, well, yeah, maybe I am an E because I could relate so, so much to that story, because I could recall, where I would say something to one person in the morning. And by the end of the day, I'm saying something else. I think the trick that you taught me and now it's, it's an understanding within the company in the morning, I just say, hey, just so you know, I'm processing out loud. And then I'll say, what I do, and like, this is not a decision. This is just me thinking out loud, and boy that has really helped continue to shape in a positive way or company culture.
Laura : Absolutely. Well, conversely, for an introvert, they are often seen as reserved and reflective, typically have fewer friends, but really deep like my daughter is an introvert. She has, I think three really, really close friends and other people want to be friends with her. And it's not that she's rude to them. But she says, Mom, I can't handle any more than what I have. Because it's important that they go deep. Sometimes they spend too much time reflecting as opposed to an extrovert. And they miss things because they don't act quickly enough. They're so busy ruminating and thinking. And they gain energy from just the stillness, the pictures, ideas, memories, the things that are happening around them inside their heads. And that internal process has to take place. This is where society tends to be extroverted. We all come to a meeting. And at that meeting, we throw all these ideas out and then we're expected to make a decision. But if you have an introverted leader, they need time to process all the information that's being thrown out there. And so what some companies have learned to do is throw out ideas in advance, so the introverts have time to think about it. And then they come to the meeting, at least with a half baked idea that they can actually make a decision by the end. Otherwise, they're seen as indecisive. When that's not the case at all. It just means they haven't had time to process. And we found in groups that I facilitate anyway, we've had these conversations, introverts are not necessarily going to jump in and join the conversation, it's really important for skilled facilitators to be able to stop and say, we're gonna pause, I'd like to hear from David, or not you, David, but I'm thinking of another guy. And you have to let them have that whitespace to think, because even so, I never call on an introvert first, ever. I know who the introverts in my group are, I let them ruminate for a little bit. Plus, they know better now they know to say, Hey, can you call in somebody else first? I need to step back and think about this. But this is honoring a preference. And a lot of times, if I want somebody to share something in a group, I will call them in advance and tell them what the discussion topics are going to be, so that they come prepared, and they're not put on the spot.
David : You mentioned your daughter having like three really good friends and that being a trade of introverts going really deep. Does that lead to introverts struggling more with loneliness? Or would you say extroverts do as well, but it's like they have 1000, surface level friends, but no deep friends and therefore struggle with loneliness.
Laura : I haven't noticed that. As a matter of fact, my introverted friends are really digging COVID, not the scary parts of it, and the death and all that, but the fact that they can actually be alone, and nobody's bugging them, telling them they have to get out in society, the more comfortable as a rule with their own company. So it's more of a problem for extroverts being isolated than it is for introverts, it's really their preferred state.
Mary : Yeah, it's like with an extrovert, there's so much action, it feels like you need to curate the energy. You need other people in order to satisfy or or replenish. And that takes more action.
Laura : Yes, it actually does.
Mary : Yeah,I really realized I was an extrovert. I went to Guatemala with one of my good friends. And he's very much an introvert. We were walking down the cobblestone streets. And I was just rattling off everything that I was observing and witnessing, and just like so elated, and joyous over and he was like, you know, what, you really like to share out loud your experience. And I was like, Are you telling me that you need some quiet and so the whole trip, I was really like trying to exercise giving some space because there something about engaging with an introvert as an extrovert feels like, there's space that comes with that connection. I feel like I tend to fill up all of the space. And so it really does feel like a breath of fresh air, but it was an exercise.
Laura : Yeah, I can see that. Well, in our groups. I love that comment, fill up space. A lot of times an introvert will need even a few seconds. I just mentioned this a minute ago, to gather their thoughts. And I find the extroverts want to jump right in and fill that space. And I'm like, No, no, no. Let's take a break here. You know, we're going to hear what Steve has to say. And let him warm up to that conversation. Also, if there's a pause, the extrovert will jump right in. And I've actually been told by introverts, if you interrupt us, we're done. Yeah, we're not going to talk again. That's the end of the story. Done. So it's an exercise when I'm coaching facilitators, to be aware of that dynamic. You can kind of see it, but I would much rather have a whole table full of introverts. Then one obnoxious extrovert who doesn't know boundaries. Because to keep them from taking over the conversation is Impossible sometimes.
Mary : Well, and when both David and I met with you last, and we realized we were both extroverts, too, we were like, what better platform than having a podcast together? Right? That was a realization that we had. I mean, I think even as we go through the context of the rest of the pairings, it becomes even more clear as to why having a podcast is such a journey for us. But that, you know, writing a blog would be far less satiating to the two of us than having a podcast where we get to talk through things. So next is the intuitive and sensing.
Laura : So sensing is represented by an S, intuition is represented by an N, just because I is already taken. So basically, what this says is, how do you gather information? Do you take in information that comes through your five senses? Or do you pay attention to patterns and possibilities in the information you receive? And remember, everybody spent some time sensing and sometimes using intuition. And it has nothing to do with sensual that's not related at all. So people who have a sensing preference, which by the way in the United States is three quarters of the population, they're going to pay attention to the physical reality. So what I see here, touch, taste, smell, they are very concerned with what is actual present, current and real. So they start with the facts, and then form a big picture. They trust their experiences first, and words and symbols less. And they actually remember events as snapshots of what happens. And if you are in a car accident, I always say you better hope there's a sensing person around because they will remember the sequence, they will remember the details, the intuitive will remember that they are there. But they won't be able to tell you exactly what happened. They'll tell you how the bigger picture of the image or what was going on, but they're not going to be able to say, I saw this car pull out in traffic, and this car turns right. That is the world of the sensing person, they're very pragmatic down to earth. rock solid, we were talking before the podcast, a lot of times the sensing people are the ballast that keeps the balloon from sailing off into outer space. So it's a really, really good balance to have some sensing people and some intuitives. So intuitives on the other side, they pay attention to impressions, and meaning and patterns, they're going to see patterns. They're concerned with what the possibilities are in the future. And they will see the big picture first, and then worry about those pesky facts. They tend to work with symbols, abstract concepts. And as I mentioned, they will remember events, as impressions rather than the actual details. One of the things you'll hear is, these folks will read between the lines. And then one of the things we probably don't have time to talk about today is the difference of the pairs, the internal pairs. So intuitive thinkers are different than intuitive feelers. So intuitive thinkers tend to intuit big ideas, intuitive feelers, tend to intuit people, they can read people really well. So here's an example of an intuitive thinker, they're gonna walk into, let's say, a huge space that is completely open. And they're going to see all the possibilities. You know, I can see opening a food pantry for 1000 people, and we're going to be able to feed, you know, eradicate hunger, and it's going to be done in such a unique way. that's never been done before. And then we're going to transport it to other cities where they can do it as well. And pretty soon we're gonna have CNN here filming us. And we're gonna put the cameras right over there in the corner. The sensing person comes in and they see the same raw space, and they're like, Oh, my gosh, look at this raw space. How are we going to build the walls where, you know, do we have enough money for electric? How's the plumbing work of, you know, do we have enough for refrigeration? How is the roof, you know, and we'll never get it done in time. So you can see how you need both you need the visionary but you also need the practical. And I heard someone say one time that there are three sensing people for every intuitive and the reason is, it takes three sensing people to ask execute whatever cockamamie idea that the intuitive has thought up, which is so true. And then you've got the intuitive feelers, which is me. And sometimes people will say, Well, how do you know that? I don't know. I just know. But I will remember facts that people have told me in the past. And when they say something, or even micro glances, I do notice micro glances, which is kind of creepy. But on the other hand, I always ask why, like, why did that person get uncomfortable when somebody said this thing, and it'll stick in my mind, and then sometime down the future, it'll be like, okay, I remember when they did this. Well, that's what that was all about. So I'm making connections, about people's behavior and their feelings. So there's a bit of a distinction between the intuitive feeler and the intuitive thinker. So let me give you a real quick example of that. I was doing a leadership debrief with an African American woman who was in her late 50s. And this is a woman who had of her time, brilliant woman had skipped several grades, and ended up in a pretty high position of authority. Not an easy thing to do in that timeframe. And her score for transparency was pretty low. And I could tell she was really troubled by this. But I remembered talking to another African American friend of mine, again, somebody who had excelled. And she told me sometimes when I walk into a company, they see the B team arriving. So I have to overcompensate in order to get past my skin color. Is that true? Maybe, probably, but it was her perception. So she couldn't be her authentic self, at least in her mind. She couldn't be transparent. Because she had to be who she thought this company wanted her to be. So I remembered that fact. So I asked this lady as we're talking and I don't know her at all. I said, I'm just have a question for you. When you walk into a company, Do you ever feel like they think the B team has arrived? And she stopped and she looked at me and she said, How do you know that? And I said, well, because I remember hearing somebody say that. And I wonder if that's your truth as well. Well, we became really good friends after that, because I was intuiting, something that she didn't even know about herself. But when that truth came out, then she felt safe around me. And it created a bridge. So that's the intuitive feeler.
David : I hope you're enjoying this conversation as much as I am. I know for me, one of the reasons why I love Myers Briggs is that the nuance allows me to see myself and to go deep within just how I process information and as well as give me the framework and understanding for those around me. So we'll pause the conversation for now and then join us next week as we unpack the thinker versus feeler, as well as judging versus perceiving. So the second half of Myers Briggs. Have a great week, everyone. Be well!
