Ep 08 - Interview with Sabina Hitchen on Fear and Insecurity
Episode 8 Interview! Please welcome our friend and PR guru Sabina Hitchen as we further unpack the topic of Fear and Insecurity!
TRANSCRIPT:
David : Well hello third place podcast listeners. Welcome to a bonus episode of the third place podcast. This episode is an interview with our friend Sabina Hitchen. It's almost a second part of our episode nine, facing our fears and insecurities. So we wanted to interview someone that has had some success in life, who many would probably think doesn't struggle with fears, insecurity. But as we've kind of unpacked during that episode, we really concluded that everybody does just part of the human condition. So a little bit about Sabina. Sabina Hitchen is an entrepreneur, speaker and media expert dedicated to educating and empowering entrepreneurs and small business owners to get publicity strategically and confidently. Sabina’s former professional Iife saw her work as an educator, and education curriculum creator before moving on to occur public relations in New York City, where she told the stories of brands of all sizes in the national and local media. It was here where she discovered the power publicity hat on small businesses, and dedicated herself to creating tools and resources to help and utilize it for growth. Sabina now sits as the founder and principal of press for success PR prep school, where they offer streaming online PR and buzz building classes, as well as a monthly PR support membership community that has become an essential tool for small business owners around the country. Sabina and her work has been seen in Good Morning America, USA Today, the Huffington Post, Fox Business News, ABC News, NBC News, Shape magazine, women's health, Forbes and more. Sabina, Elizabeth, her husband, daughter and dog George Michael. And you can follow along with her and get juicy PR tips at Sabina nose on Instagram. So without further ado, welcome Sabina to the third place podcast.
Mary : So David and Mary here with the third place podcast, we are thrilled to have Sabina join us in a conversation that is a vulnerable one but unnecessary one, it's extremely important, we were just talking about how important it is, especially in this time. And when we were thinking of who could be the best person to interview when we are breaking down insecurity, we immediately thought of Sabina because you have been pivotal to us in our insecurity journey and starting this podcast. So it was less that we felt like okay, she's going to be someone that has very personal experience with it more like wow, you were so crucial to us, it was so little and but it's so deeply impactful that we thought how cool to flip the script and say, you know, first of all, this is like a way of saying thank you. Um, and then and also Sabina is a PR guru and just a powerhouse and has taught us more in the two hours of calls that we've had then probably in my life of, you know, learning about PR. And so you're in the world where you have to be a face of many things on many occasions, and we felt like you exude confidence and have also supported us in this journey. So we're really grateful to sort of dive into the conversation of insecurity and hear your relationship to it.
David : And you know, truthfully too, like you're successful, right. So I think there's an assumption out there that people that are very successful, and comparing ourselves to someone like that there's an assumption that, well, you wouldn't have insecurity. So I'm kind of going out on a leap of faith that that's not true. The people that are successful have just as much insecurity as people who don't, so maybe you're gonna say,
Sabina : Oh, my God. So it was really interesting. First of all, thank you for having me. And I'm excited that we were talking about this. And as we were sort of talking pre-show, the alignment of this topic is so huge. First of all, I'm obsessed with All Things discomfort, and being uncomfortable and courage and they're all part of the same omelet. And they're all hanging out together. And because it's on my huge quest, to be more courageous and to be okay being uncomfortable, which I'm not always good at. But what's interesting was I look at people who I admire who I think oh my gosh, that woman has it all together, like, which is never me. It's like always looking at someone else. And then I get to know them in a setting like this or at a business event or something now all virtual and I'm like, Oh my gosh, they're just as insecure as me or they're just as trying to figure it out, or they're admitting that they feel like a fool whatever they post on Facebook or something. So we're all in it together and I'm 100% at a constant quest to feel more secure, but definitely getting there more and more. So I'm excited to talk about it.
Mary : Yeah, it's it's interesting that you bring that up, because we did feel like one of the truths that we came to, as we were preparing to do this podcast was that it really is a shared experience across the board for everyone. And so there's a way that, in connecting on something like that you can experience connection and love. And so through something that is so humbling, like insecurity, like how cool that we can find connectors in a challenging emotion that we all feel.
Sabina : And I feel like people who are really successful, like the people, we all look up to, the names we just recognize and read about or look at it, or something. Those people who are often connected, because relationships are everything. And people connect at different levels. all know that they share the same things that we all know. And they find ways to help each other through that just like we're doing here, because that's how we all elevate. So it's not like you get to a certain tier of success. And you're like, Oh, this is the part what I'm super confident. Like, I don't think that ever happens. I think you're just like, oh, here's some new things I can be insecure about. Or here's something else I can worry about. Or you know, like work through. But I feel like these people who keep elevating, elevating they all know we share the same stuff. We're not all that different. But um they're finding ways to talk even the talking about it immediately takes away that sort of fear and power. But they're doing that because they know they have to do that to elevate and I think that's a big part of their power. And things we all forget is like they don't hide from it. They embrace it, and figure out how to face it, because they don't have time for that holding them back.
Mary : Yeah, so true. I'm so like, in talking about your experience of elevating over and over, right, like what has insecurity looked like to you over the years? And how do you? How have you continued to elevate throughout?
Sabina : I think about this all the time. Because I think it is and not that David can't relate. But also Mary, like as a woman, you have all these other things going on in security wise with you. But then, as a woman in business, that's when I think if I were to look back and say, Wow, I wish I had done that differently or known differently. It would be in business, not believing in myself enough in the beginning to even go into business by myself. I thought I have to have a partner to do this not because I thought my business partner brought something to the table necessarily that I didn't have. It was more that I didn't think I had it enough on my own like I couldn't. I was in my 20s I didn't intend to be a business owner. But again, I was like, I can't do this on my own. Because I didn't trust myself enough. And every business misstep, I think, but I look back and I got like, I heard something from someone recently said like, if you weren't a little embarrassed about who you were last year, you're not growing enough. So I look back every time like look back on myself. I'm like Yikes, right? Like the things we've done in business. You look back, you're like, oh, but like, I cringe thinking about it. But it's often because I was not secure enough with myself or sure enough about myself all that stuff. It's linked in to make the decisions on my own. To think I could do something on my own until I messed up enough with you know, like, not trusting myself enough that I decided to start doing that. Of course that's when all the magic happens. It's like every cliche, but that was huge. Like I repeatedly chose to work with other people. And not just myself.
Mary : Whoa, I didn't. I'm saying that because I feel like you're saying something. I don't know if I've said out loud that David has experienced my own journey to that I've always been like, Okay, well I'll start this if it's with this person, because they're going to round out my skill set and it's actually hindered me from doing practically anything is a result and I do think there's like this easy, like you want someone to be able to give you that push and that by being a partner in it that gives you the push that you need.
David : Yeah, like within the first year of our relationship. I'm like you're an entrepreneur. No, I’m not, yeah you are
Sabina : it's hard to do that right. And also we think I feel like for me it was like well this is like a safety net like I was just like so afraid to take that leap realizing now I can hire what I need to have and and again some people it's super awesome to be in a partnership like some people are amazing partners but for me I knew I was making those choices, too much out of fear or not trusting myself and then like in any relationship you keep making that same mistake of like oh my gosh, I'm not doing this again until it gets so bad you're like Why can't I just like something inside me was like I want to do this on my own. I need to do this on my own, but I didn't trust myself in the beginning. So I've had to learn the hard way thinking like that person would be like a parachute, like a weight on your business when it's not the right person. So that repeated itself a couple times through my business career. So I started my first business my 20s I am now 41. And only now, right at the end of my, like 38th, 39th year, I finally was free of any business part like I took over when business fully. And then I separate, I have always I have two businesses I run. I separated what from one and started my own sort of thing on my own. So that was a big deal for me, but it only came through a lot of like, personal growth and growing up, and I think that's okay, also because you don't want to look back and like keep beating yourself up for mistakes you made when you were insecure, or were more insecure than you are now.
Mary : I know that you have a young child at home, right? How old?
Sabina: She is 21 months old.
Mary : So I'm wondering is there any tie between you becoming a mother and making because that's so my story too is that becoming a mother I like was propelled into a confidence that I had never had prior
Sabina : There was definitely that I mean day to day especially, it's funny, it'd be pre pandemic, um, the motherhood definitely just I was everything else was small compared to a) being so tired, I didn't have time to worry about stuff and then also just wanting to take care of this child. Now during the pandemic when my business like I am the higher breadwinner compared to my husband's so my need and desire to protect my pack. And my family is like levels, and you need to feel bad about asking for an opportunity. But even prior to that, I think it was me even before Juliet was born, I was already going solo. And it was because I was having this realization like, I can do this. And also even if I can't do it amazingly well, I can't do it this way, right? I can't do it with this version of myself that I was when I didn't trust myself. And when I was like, insecure and not who I really am, in my authentic self not to be cheesy. But once I knew that, then I was like in this really inauthentic business partnership all of a sudden, cuz I'm like, wait, I'm over here. Now I just woke up. I know who I am. And why is the old me still hanging out here in a space where I don't need to be. And what's interesting was, can I tell you, my business partner, that I ran this really big, small business community with who I had to have a breakup with. She knew when we, she was like, let's have lunch, let's get some wine. And as we're like taking her first sips of wine, she's like, I'm giving you permission to end this. And I was like, Oh, it's like everyone knows you're ready to go off on your own. And it's like, he's like fly little bird like you say it, like you don't like doing this with me anymore. And it's becoming so ugly. So and now we're still like, you know, fantastic business buds. But um, yeah, that long story short insecurity can make you do crazy things, including, like, take your whole business and your whole self down a different path, just because you don't want to just make a leap by yourself.
David : I mean, I love how that story, though, she gave you this permission to be insecure, which allowed us to then be safe
Sabina : Someday we'll do a follow up because that's also a story of a business partnership that broke up but then got stronger outside of it. But yeah, the people who really love you. And that's the great thing about insecurity and authenticity. Even my first side to business side, a PR agency, and I had a small business community I was running. And I was in partnerships, and both of them because I didn't think I could start a PR agency on my own. It felt overwhelming. I was like, 26 so I went into business with my boyfriend. I was like, oh, he'll help me and then he got like, trapped in a business with me. But it's funny thing is, he and I are still incredible friends even after the relationship and business ended because that's the beautiful thing about life no matter how ugly it gets. The people who love you who know you even when you think you're hiding it, like know what you're really like your weirdness, your own personal formula for you. They know that and they're still sticking around for it. Like both of those business partners helped birth me out of my they knew the Sabina who was like shining bright inside me even when I was like too afraid to unleash her. And they let me birth her in the ugliest way, which was like, let me try to come by this business relationship and be like a total jerk, right? And then they like, they're one of them is like still my dogs know him as uncle like, my son is my daughter. Like now but so again, it's really like, super cool. That's a cool thing about insecurity because again, like the things that matter will stay there when you come out the other side.
Mary : Yeah, we we talked a lot about that. One of the remedies for insecurity is finding people that can be your mirror. No, we say that we're all each other's mirrors, but like those that can really see your authentic self when you don't, when you're not able to. And when I think that that can be a rare relationship, but I'm also looking curious with you? How insecurity because you said it was really ugly? Like how did your insecurity present itself to yourself, your own personal experience of it, but also to others.
Sabina : Like, for me, and I can remember always I’m an oldest child, I am like a total people pleaser. I was like super best at everything like that. It's a very stereotypical, like very, like, ever knows that person. And so it's to me outside of always trying to be the best at everything and make everyone happy. And then as you get sucked into that, as an adult, it becomes hard. Because when you're running a business, I was running a PR agency, which is very much into pleasing people anyways, it's like, I was very good at it, because I was like, I'm in the practice. And I'm like taking care of everybody. But it really manifests itself in like, it's a challenge, right? Because you have to keep, you're like trying to keep everyone happy all the time, and then getting angrier inside because you are not always doing what you need to do. Um, but to me, it was just when you're trying to please everyone all the time, you don't really know what direction you're going in. And so that was hard. But I think the cool thing, though, it's always hard when it's happening is you can't keep those things up for too long. And then like, the part of you that's like done with it starts coming out, hopefully. And for me, because I was just naturally doing a lot of personal growth, work, working, trying to take care of myself and work on myself. And I was surrounded by some amazing people who helped me elevate, I sort of found my way up, but like, really not gracefully. And I think that maybe that's the only way to be sometimes and you're trying to figure yourself out. I'd rather do it really ungracefully than not do it at all. And I wasn't sure how to like in the beginning, say what I wanted. So it came out the wrong way. Because you're so not used to saying what you want, when you're insecure dislike what you want, um, or like I'm great was like my, you know, my mantra about everything. So when I wasn't great. I wasn't sure how to iterate that to people. Um, but I do know and like, you know
David : That's in our like, everyday language. I mean, it's the way that we are taught to greet each other. Hey, how are you? I'm good. And even if you're not good, or if you are the one that asked the question, you have to ask twice. Oh, you're good? No, but how are you really to even get to a little bit
Sabina : Exactly. And then when you start talking about it, then it becomes easier. And then for me what was cool was, um, well, first, I have an amazing world around me. And when I met my husband, not like I needed anybody to help me. But I was already on my way to like knowing myself and my awesomeness, like I was drinking my own Kool Aid. I was single for a while, I was really high on myself. And so when I met him, he just amplified that because I think you project something out that people are attracted to, I think he's playing the first relationship I attracted, it was like, This is me. And I'm amazing. And he's like, I'm on board. And so he just amplifies. But even he knows when I'm being insecure or because people again, see you for who you are, no matter how much you pretend you're something. But what was interesting for me is the more I'm vulnerable and talk about, like I very much am sure who I am like it was a journey for sure. And of course, my business and life got better and better as I got more and more sure of who I was, which is again, what like helps you keep doing it. If you're out there listening, you're like I don't even know where to begin. But every time you do things more and more for yourself or what you know, in your gut is right and it's true to who you are, where your business needs to go not like your business pleasing people, because people will take advantage of all day then things just get better. And that encourages you to keep doing it. And then I share my vulnerabilities and what was great for me was then in my communities where I am now in the communities I run it helps people connect and I think a big thing for me, as my work has grown in my reach has been I am like filter list in many ways. I mean, I keep a lid on my Ultra personal stuff, but like I just talked about who I am and what my fears are and stuff and then people connect to that. And then help me grow my business but also just feels better to know that everyone's in the same boat.
Mary : Yeah, like so what still triggers you like when do you go to like your really insecure place even though you've done all this work and you feel like more grounded you have a partner that loves and supports and like just amplifies your light. Like what still gets you to a place of like, Oh shit, I don't know what I'm doing or I like maybe maybe you feel dulled down because I feel like yeah, so like the energy about you is so contagious. Like I every time we talk, I love it. And I think thats what people are attracted to is your light is contagious. So I'm wondering like, what does that light and like what makes you feel insecure to this day? Like what are some triggers?
Sabina : Definitely, I'm super competitive. So I have to be careful when I compare myself to people in my industry, like if anyone does something similar to what I'm doing and I'm like, Oh my gosh, am I doing enough? And then you get like all crazy and if you're a parent, I'm a parent. I can never be doing enough like, I see the 20 year old tech talkers. like them, I did this, then I did this, but I did that it was like 10 am. I am like, I will never be able to keep up with them because I have a kid and I have a husband and I have like, just my own sanity to protect now. So I sometimes will get a little bit like, oh, what's, you know, what am I even trying to do? But then I realized, like, um, there's again, there was someone for that. That young lady who is Tick Tock in and has that time and they're so fun for me. And we it's all cool. But that is hard for me. And then I definitely had to learn. And it's mentally tasked I managed, which is because I serve clients privately still. And I work in publicity. And it's really challenging field, this need to keep them happy, which is just like, this is a hamster wheel, you're on in PR, it is out of your control. So you're like, I hope I make them happy. That has been something in the beginning I would overwork in my 20s I would work into my life all the time trying to please clients because I didn't trust like I have the reins. I know how this process goes the same way with employees. I'd be like, how is everyone doing? But now I don't do that with employees too. Like I know where the line is. I know that I'm holding the reins. I did not hold the reins tightly with clients or employees when I was younger, for sure.
Mary : That's interesting because one of the when I was about to give birth to my son, I chose a doula. And as an older doula told me, she was like, the best doula you can get is one that's never done it before, because they will give you way too much. I ended up getting one that was in training that was like, it wasn't even purposeful. But there is something to be said about that. Like, when you're so fresh in it, you just want to throw all of yourself at it at the cost of yourself. And not others. And that it takes time to know, like, okay, what's the balance between people pleasing and honoring what I can actually control or not in their response to the work that I provide.
Sabina : Even like little things if someone feels like they're like, Oh, I feel that all the time. Even my own business. Like I've learned the easy like, baby step for me. And that has even been I'm not needing to respond immediately with a yes, no matter what someone says, like, let me check my calendar or you know, not today, but tomorrow, because I'd be like, Oh, you want the essay tonight? Yes. Or like Tina meeting at three in the morning? Totally. Like, I would do anything. And I was also young entrepreneurs against part of the journey completely, but I was like, Yes, yes. analyse like, no, that can be to you next week. Or how about we talk Thursday? And guess what, no one cares. Like, they expect you to do that, their business people. So that was a big awakening for me. Um, but again, like that was a definite journey. And I think you don't start taking that journey until you're like this way that I'm living is not giving me what I want. But you have to slip, you're feeling sort of crappy. It's a good thing. Because you don't get to like change until you are in that space of like, no more this because otherwise, you just simmer in that mediocrity until you're like, this is not a soup, I'm into, like, I need to go somewhere else. So you have to sort of feel like this sucks, or you just hang out there.
David : Yeah. I mean, it's that when things just are really bad and make changes if they're not going to get really bad. So yeah, something's gotta give. So here we go. Forget it.
Mary : I love that simmer in mediocrity. Like that's such a good saying
Sabina : My husband told me that right before we met, he and his dad, my husband's from London and they are out somewhere cool in Europe in the ocean but his dad had been talking like how he'd been feeling about a former relationship. And he was like, I just feel like I'm treading water as they're treading water. in like real time. But then his dad's like, you know, you never want to feel like you're treading water in life. And I feel like that's the thing we all do until it just gets to be the point of this is unbearable. So I always say like, if you're feeling really crappy, it's good. It means you're like, Huh, no more.
Mary : Yeah, yeah, that that whole thing and that you started with it? You know, the discomfort that that actually serves the change. So you spend a lot of time in front of the camera. Yeah, right. Um, you know, on like, Good morning, America. And otherwise. Yeah. So like, what's your process in preparing to be in front of the camera? And yeah, like I said
Sabina : Oh my gosh, I tell you every time I have a segment I'm like, why did I do this? This
is the worst, I’m so nervous I want to throw up. Honestly, the only good thing about the pandemic for work for me has been, that you can film from your home which feels much less overwhelming. Like I can hide my talking points on a table or I can like have my husband in the corner like thumbs up in me or timing. But because he does, he's like my production, my cameras and my lighting and like everything that because we're working in a kitchen playroom as a TV studio, but we, um, it's really hard. That's another thing like I love the Tina Fey quote, “just say yes and figure it out afterwards.” And I'm a big believer in it. I also once watched it interview with Tina Fey and Amy Poehler talking about how when they were in improv one of the jobs you do is like, try to make yourself as uncomfortable as possible all the time. Like, just like, throw yourself into situations make you uncomfortable. So even though I really wanted to do TV, I was like, oh, like I was always pretty excuses not to do enough of it. And then I realized it's because I just get really nervous. So I just book it all the time now. And then it even still. So like, years later, I've been doing it for 10 years or so. I still, every time I'm like, why did I do this? Can I call in sick, is that tacky? Like I think these all these things in my head. And then the minute the cameras rolling, I'm like, I love this. Like, it's so great. So it's all the same thing, like and I know so many people who feel the same way who do what I do who are like right before the camera goes on. I'm like, Oh, so freaked out. but you still have to do it.
Mary : So what happens if you have a bad segment?
Sabina : I mean, you guys, I once had a segment start. And I had been going into my whole like, I'm nervous. My mouth is dry. And they're like, announcing me in a second. The cameras are on. So I was like, took a swig, I had like a coffee mug or something. And the camera went right on me when I was like mid swig. And I just waved to see like, and here's Sabina and I'm like drinking from coffee on camera live, like waving the camera. And whenever and I remember calling my sister afterwards is like and then like the whole thing was like a news reporter tried to pick up a plant that was a prop think he was part of the show. It was so weird. And it was live. It was hilarious. But I told my sister all about it. And I laughed so hard. And then of course when she watched it, she's like, I didn't notice anything weird. It was totally fine. It was like, Yeah, all in your head. But I still like every time I do a segment, I call my little sister who's like an adult mom. No, but I call my sister and I'm like, tell me, I'm Beyonce. Like Tell me. Listen to me do my talking points and say their genius. And then I get a little pep talk. And then I go on. And it's all good.
Mary : So is there anyone that has modeled a healthy relationship to insecurity or just like the dance with confidence and insecurity to you?
Sabina : I try to think things to me, mostly been I have a couple of girlfriends who are very vulnerable and honest. And I find that the way they are that inspires me to be the same way. And then whenever I see any business owner who is the same way, who can talk about their bad parts as much as their good parts that inspires you like everyone's always like, I made it in like one year I became a billionaire. And I'm so great, everything is amazing. And I'm confident and that does not inspire me. But people who talk about their improvements. And so I think for me, that's just the friends and business people I watch who are really honest about their journeys, just show me cause again, every time all of us do it, it gives. It's like the cliche, but it gives everyone else permission to do that. So we see someone doing it, you're like, Oh, I can do that. And what's also cool is those friends, I like more, and I trust more because they're so honest and vulnerable. And then we share and we learn so in the same way. Like when you do that people like you more.
Mary : Yeah, I mean, so the third place, as we've told you in the past, but a lot about the third places creating safety, to be vulnerable, to be ugly to be raw. And I'm curious, like in the world of PR, like what does that look like? How are you creating a third place with the work that you do with the small businesses and then also with the PR world in general?
Sabina : I think so for me, one of the big things I do is I have this online PR School, which is also the big small business community that surrounds of like 1500 small businesses, who are students in that space. And one thing I like is because often kicked off with some story about me, like I fell down on the way to Oprah Magazine in their offices in front of their staff once like I had, I will happily tell my stories, because then they are catalysts for other people to start talking and sharing. And watching them go from like, I don't want to do anything I'm frozen to taking action has been huge for me and I love seeing that. And I love knowing that we make that space for them both in just opening the conversation and making it normal. And also giving them the tools they need to do it. Like I'll tell you in the past week, we've had one small business owner named Cecilia, who filmed Good Morning America and she was like, up to the last minute like I don't know what I'm doing. I'm terrified. And we're like, encouraged her, cheered her on. She'd loved it afterwards. Of course, that was a big moment for her. And then another one and a Marsha on a woman in her 60s filmed a local news show two days ago and again, these are stories of people who totally don't know what they're doing, but they jumped in. She's like, Oh my god, I'm on my national or my local news now. So knowing that we're making that space is awesome. And I'm knowing and this is for all of you listening, like the power we have when we invite our own stories into it right and share our own selves, takes no money takes nothing. And it's such a powerful tool that we use against all the other weapons, I think that are because everything's being weaponized. And just like is really angry out there. But the power of our storytelling and whatever community we're in to gather our tribe and like pull them together, I think is huge. And I see that in my community, like one story, or one like connecting point can trigger all this other stuff.
Mary : I hear you saying too, something that we talked about that, like so much insecurity comes from just never having done something before. And that's like, I think so universal is like if you've never done it, it brings up all of the things that you're scared about and that it's very fear based and that what you're doing is exactly that you're you're defying the fear and making it safe to to be to take a risk.
Sabina : And it's like a bummer that we as adults think that anything new is either you're good at it or this is mortifying, like what are we doing? This is like the biggest thing for my daughter is like, I watched Juliet. She messes up like 24/7. And she is all about it. She performs dance performance like every toddler does dance performances in our living room every night and will fall down or slip. She's not very you know, she's like, just to jump in skip, doesn't care loves it keeps doing it has the best time ever. And all of us as adults, when we try new things, assume like, Oh, I'm supposed to be good at this. Like, what is this? So weird. So I'm trying to let my students all know that like a) once you can go with the like, except like, this is gonna feel weird. Yeah, it's new. It's awkward, but it's still gonna be a really fun adventure. Let's do this. Because I don't want to keep living my life. And I hope they don't like afraid to do new things. Because that's how we got this far as adults. And then we just decided to stop doing anything. We're bad at all of a sudden that we get like nowhere.
David : I love Mary in the episode, said she called her son perfectly imperfect. And it's like this childlike mentality of and that's what I hoped that we could embrace or that's helped me like, it's great to be new. And it's Yeah, it's a little bit scary. But you still like, yeah, a lot, you know, and you just go after it. You know? And that's the truth of it is
Sabina : I've been trying to do that, things that make me feel weird now, like doing Instagram reels or all these video things. I'm like, I don't know what's going on. Like, I can't figure it out. But I’ll still do it. I'm like, anyways,
Mary : Dude, it's so funny you say that. David's laughing uncontrollably because I was like, just make a story. And he's like, how do you make a story? It was like a succession of events. What was it of like, share a post on a story is like, Okay, great. I see that. But then how do I make a story? I'm like, Oh, boy.
Sabina : It's like, Yeah, I was like, I gotta figure this out. And I'm gonna feel like a total weirdo. But I can do it anyways. But I'm trying to have fun with it. Instead of be like, Ah, you're not good enough. It's over. Like, what is that, but it's silliness. So now I'm going to be like, This is hilarious. I'm laughing at myself. I show my husband my attempt, because he's like, why are you breaking it down in the backyard? Like, what are you doing out there? I'm like, I'm shooting a reel. And I don't even care. Like, make fun of me all you want, guys. So hi, neighbors, like, I don't even care. So I think once we let ourselves go to that place, it's like you unleash yourself, but it's magical.
Mary : So it sounds like, would you say then one of the tools to help you combat insecurity over time has just been throwing yourself into things that are uncomfortable or that are unfamiliar, and just bring humor to it?
Sabina : Yeah, definitely that and also like doing them the more you do the things the less scary they are because you keep doing them. Like when I used to teach. I teach webinars all the time, or live classes. I've been doing it for years. When I first did them I was so scared beforehand. I would be like OCD I checked everything I'd put signs on every door I lived in in New York apartment building at that point, like no one make noise near the store. Like what if God forbid someone heard a noise while I'm broadcasting from my apartment, but like, and I'd be so scared with the tech and the themes. literally couldn't eat all morning until this webinar went on. Now you can be like Sabina, three in the morning, do a webinar now in your pajamas. I'd be like “And we’re on!”, I don't care, totally fine. Like the more you do the things the less everything gets scared and you're like what do I do now in a good way because we as humans, we keep upping the ante in good ways and bad ways whenever things go our way. So I feel like I'm gonna keep pushing myself but another huge thing for me is just community like you have to have people in your circle, who are also pushing themselves who are also going to say like this is scary or this is hard, but we're still doing it like how can I support you? Or I know you committed to asking for this thing? And how did you do it like you, if you don't have people moving that way, then you need to get on like a group of people doing that. Because I know back in the day to like my 20s, or my most insecure times, I wasn't hanging out a lot with people who were elevating in the way that like some of my friends were, but some of them were all just like wallowing in their misery together. And then see you if you want to get over your insecurity or just learn to grow, need to be hanging out with people who want to do the same thing.
Mary : Yeah, exactly. It's interesting, because I feel like you're also touching on something that we talked about where just that insecurity is like a lack of control. Mm hmm, too. And so what we try to do is, like, be meticulous, and make all the puzzle pieces come together exactly the right way. And then we realize that shit can still hit the fan, even when you have all the pieces put together all the plan. And so it's like, what a waste of energy. I mean, look at us. Now, if anyone was like, hey, you're gonna have stayed in the same room, like basically, or like the same house from like, March to September, you'd be like, You're nuts. I'd like New Year's Day or something. 2020. And now look at all of us, like, look where we're at. This is so weird. We're pretending like it's not but it's totally weird. So, like, that is an example. And the pandemic for me, it has made me have to go with the flow a lot, just like we like, right? Like, here we are trying to make it go, especially any of you listening who are parents not to say that it's not hard if you're not a parent, but you just have so much less time to make it work when you're a parent that you really have to learn to just, you don't have time for insecurity, like learn to make it work.
Mary : Yeah. Was there any moment during the pandemic? That was like your, like, your lowest moment?
Sabina : Yeah. Oh, my God. So my husband and I lived in the New York City area until March. And then we came to Maine. For like, a quick two weeks, it turned into two months. And then we decided to move here. And that journey, which was also like, my company was exploding in a good way, like really growing all of a sudden, and then he is a media consultant and his work was slowing down. And there's like a whole bunch of change, we moved states, all my friends just left, the big city people everyone just left. And so it was a big, a lot of change. Which we're going through in real time with a full time toddler at home. And full time work. It was a lot that it was hard to feel like there was any end. And I'm sure a lot of parents can relate this whole it's been a lot of 24/7 thinking it felt like, and that was really hard to me. But I just decided like, number one, I keep my route like things I need, I have routine things I need, like morning walks, or whatever I need, kept that going. And then I always just trust that if I keep moving forward, things will keep getting better. But that was a really hard place. And I think one thing that helped though, to put a bow on our conversation was like I am able to talk really vulnerably with my parents, and my partner. And so when we were hitting our rock bottom you feelings, not even like it was so dramatic, but like, it was hard. You're like, what are we doing? What do our jobs look like? Where are we gonna live? What, let's figure that out in the two hours a day or we have to ourselves or something. So that was a lot. But being able to say that out loud. With my parents, with my partner, my husband was probably the biggest thing because then everyone sort of knows where we all stand and we can all circle the wagons and work through it.
Mary : I love that. Just to have safety in your home this whole time. Because I feel like it'd be odd to me to hear that someone didn't completely reconsider everything in their life, at least at one point during this whole time.
Sabina : Oh my god, and I let it go. Like I'll tell you what else helped was one day just like totally having a meltdown in my mom's kitchen with just my mom and me because you know, that just helps sometimes just to be able sometimes you just have to like, I don't know if we’re allowed to swear on this. Well, cuz I was like apologizing and my dad was there like I'm so sorry. And my Dad was like, let that shit go. And I was like, I just like had said he's like sometimes you just have to let that shit go. Like let it out. This is such a hard thing. Everyone's having to pivot and elevate every cliched word and like, take care of your kids and take care of your parents and buy your groceries the right way and like don't not wash your hands a million times. It's a lot and I had to just like let it all go but then it's cool to know you can do that and still be okay.
Mary : Yeah, sometimes it's just letting energy move through you whatever that is. If it's the morning walk that you do, or its, shedding tears or screaming or like, whatever. Sometimes it just is an energetic thing. And it's like, I am definitely a big crier. And I used to have so much shame and insecurity around it. And now I'm like, No, that's just me moving through so that I can understand what's happening to me too. Yeah, like actually getting to a place where I can understand what's happening. Because otherwise if I try to suppress it makes me sick. So I'm like, okay, whatever, you know, that's my way.
Sabina : Mm hmm. And that's again, you knowing yourself and knowing what's right for you. And that's a big part of like, to me, living your best life if you don't get to do what, you know, works for you. And guess what, it's not the same as what works for everyone else. Like sometimes I have students and small business owners that come to me, they're like, you know, so and so got this figured out, really quickly. And I feel like a failure because it didn't for me, and I'm like, well, we all do things differently. Like, I still can't run a marathon and my sister can run two in a week or something. Like we all do things differently. It is what it is. We all work through things differently. And once we were okay with that, like, everything gets better.
Mary : Well, I loved every minute of our conversation
Sabina : I feel like that was good therapy, guys. It was so nice.
Mary : You're welcome. That'll be $150. No, can you please tell everyone where we can find out more about this community that you help run and everything else that you do and on social too, because you're such a fun personality I just want to tune in
Sabina : First of all hang out with me on Instagram which is @sabinaknows, I talk about everything there and also give PR tips but you can also find me on my PR school is at pressforsuccess.com. And I have a blog at sabinaknows.com, just like the social handle where I talk about life and PR and courage and all that stuff.
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Mary : Thank you, Sabina.
Sabina : Thanks for having me. Both of you. This was a lot of fun in such thank you for bringing conversations like this into the space that you're in.
Mary : That means a lot coming from you for sure. Thank you.
David : Well, thanks again for listening, everyone. Thank you, Sabina. I hope you got as much out of that as I did. Have a great week, everyone.
