Ep 07 - Who Told You You're Not Good Enough???
We’ve all heard it… that inner voice… “Who am I to do this? I’m not an expert! I’m not good enough!” While it’s easy to assume that the most “successful” people have never heard that voice or they already mastered how to quiet it, trust us when we say, everyone hears it… And it’s a voice that will show up again and again. So what do we do with this voice? How do we push through and persevere? Listen as we unpack our insecurities so that they don't keep us from bringing our unique
TRANSCRIPT:
Mary : We welcome you to explore the third place for us.
David : It is an invitation to the gray space, a space where deeper connections are fostered through challenging, empowering and engaging dialogue.
Mary : You will walk away with a deeper understanding of self equipped to engage with others in life's complex conversations.
David : Thank you for listening.
Mary : We invite you into the third place.
David : Well, hello, everyone. Welcome to the third place podcast. My name is David.
Mary : And I am Mary. So happy to be here.
David : So um excited probably isn't the right word for this topic facing our fears and insecurities. That makes me more nervous than excited.
Mary : A little bit insecure?
David : just a little bit. But boy, what a heavy topic and a great topic. And really one I think everyone I know wrestles with.
Mary : Yeah, I think it's like it's an equalizer. We're all on the same plane when you recognize that everyone experiences insecurity. And not not just like sometimes like, it's not something that just goes away.
David : Right, Yes, absolutely. I think that, as I've learned about or read about people that have insecurity, you know, usually it's someone that has some kind of platform, so therefore have had some level of success or fame even. And in my assumption would be that they of course, don't have insecurity. What are you talking about? And they're like, No, no, it's still there.
Mary : Gosh, that's so true. Like, I've been someone that has been told that people are shocked when I admit how much insecurity I suffer or struggle with. I think people can come off or present in certain ways. And that's part of what we want to unpack is that that's a coping mechanism. But it can be a shock when you realize, especially in this day and age that everyone is experiencing this, and then it's something that comes up and is cyclical.
David : Well, one of the reasons why I came up for us and why I wanted to dive into this topic is so much of the third place idea is creating spaces for people. And sometimes that's emotional spaces. Sometimes that's physical spaces, like a business that might be community minded. Sometimes I think that's art. There's a lot of ways that that can come about. And really with everything, in all of those scenarios, you're creating something. I mean, we're creating this podcast and, you know, truth be told, we’ve faced insecurities about Wait a minute, who are we to do this? Why are we experts? Are we sure that we're the right people to do this? Even though, as we answer that question, we're like, yeah, I, this is my experience. And honestly, like even calling out our own fear and insecurity, makes us be able to relate to the topic. So which is why we should talk about it. Right. So there's this creative thing. And I know that one of the reasons why kind of came on our radar is because I think we need so many spaces that need to be created. And we need so many voices to come into this third place, this middle ground, but anytime anything's being created, it's like this insecure voice becomes that much more amplified.
Mary : Yeah, then then the like, a nice gift voice you mean?
David : Yeah. Right.
Mary : Right. Yeah. I think that we realize that insecurity presents itself in this internal voice most often. I mean, there's a lot of other ways that it manifests physically, but it feels like working with insecurity is understanding that maybe there's a voice beyond that insecure voice that is trying to break through.
David : Yeah, like, where does that insecure voice come from? Is it helpful at all? I think, again, like a key ingredient of the third place is to create safe spaces. You know, that means we want to show up and be present for other people too. So part of creating safety is also creating safety for ourselves emotional safety. And the place works best when it's an inviting space for dialogue and relationship. And so just by that alone, there's vulnerability, which I think also heightens this fear and insecurity voice.
Mary : Right? It's like every deep conversation you've probably ever had, you were vulnerable in some capacity. And so you shared something about yourself that was probably pretty authentic. And then the person wants to mirror that. So a lot of these conversations that we're having an insecurity being one of the most challenging to date is identifying that we're all on the same page experiencing the same thing. And that when you can name something as challenging as that, that just probably gives way to that much more of an opportunity to have a safer conversation or a safer space and a deeper conversation.
David : And that's definitely what I hope to get out of this episode is equipping ourselves, me too. And I'm sure you too, Mary, that how do we create how do we have the tools to create that much more safety around harder conversations, and the tools needed to reach out and have dialogue with people that we disagree with, like, quite frankly, the fall, like we're at the beginning of the school year. So there's a layer of anxiety for many people, that's, you're still going through it or like in the middle of it. But quite frankly, this fall is super anxiety producing for me, just because it's going to get worse before it gets better. Just with politics ramping up like that the thought of Thanksgiving dinner, in my mind, is one that's a little bit stressful. And normally, on top of already holiday stress. So hopefully by diving into this conversation, and recognizing that we all have these fears and insecurities, it gives us some tools to be prepared to have conversations that are coming in this next season.
Mary : Yeah, I love that. So I think that like the first thing we should probably explore is what is insecurity? And, to me, like, it's pretty simple. There's sort of two things that I think of the first is that it comes from a place of doubt in oneself. And another thing that comes up is that it's a like, being in a perceived position of threat. So something or someone could potentially be judging you or threatening your understanding of self or your wisdom or your capabilities, whatever it may be. So it comes from like, you know, both of those really are saying, okay, it's an overwhelming feeling of doubt. And then the way that it presents is different for everyone. But some of the things that David and I relate with a lot of the business world, especially in the entrepreneur space, they talk about imposter syndrome. And if this is the first time you're hearing about what imposter syndrome is, it's basically what David sort of mentioned right? Before, which is, who am I to be doing this? Maybe I haven't gotten a degree in it. Or maybe I did get a degree in it, but I didn't get a master's in it. Or maybe I have only spent this many clinical hours on this topic, or I've only done this many readings, whatever it may be. So there's always this feeling of like who I am to tell you something when there's gonna always be someone that knows more than me. So why me? And I think anyone that deals with just embarking on something new imposter syndrome comes up all the time. I like the strong language of imposter syndrome, because it makes you feel like you're like this stranger in a room that isn't welcome. So it's a really dramatic way of putting words to a feeling that I think is pretty dramatic for a lot of people, and something that I face every time I have to start something I've never done before.
David : Well, back to that creative space. I really just think we need so much more creativity today and more people that are empowered and emboldened to be able to have the harder conversations or to create whatever it is. And so we just need more, we need to think about things in such a different light, which means it requires creativity. And I think that that's when that imposter voice is just so loud.
Mary : I love that you just use the word embolden. That's the name of my mountain bike.
David : Oh, cool.
Mary : And I actually didn't know what the word was, but it's supposed to give you courage or confidence, essentially. And I just think it's such a beautiful word. And to me like having the act of mountain biking has been something especially because it's like very much being a woman mountain bikers a minority sport regardless like you even though there's a ton happening now, it's a way of totally facing insecurities. And that's a practice that I've done that I didn't even recognize until you said that word and made that link right now. So that's cool.
David : Very cool. Yeah, we're live and figuring this all out together.
Mary : So another way that insecurity can show up is just that feeling of fear of failure. So I think that oftentimes, when you're diving into doing something that's creative, or something that's new, imposter syndrome is like, okay, I don't know what I'm doing. Whereas fear of failure is, okay, what if, if I do it, then what if everything fails? Or what if I'm not up to snuff, and then a lot of that is really tied to potentially unrealistic expectations, and setting ourselves up for failure and really trying to measure ourselves in conventional ways that we've been measured. So like, even, you know, a lot of the world or the way that we've been based is in a competitive spirit, and that has had a lot of positive reinforcement over many years. So it sort of links together, how the fear of failure comes maybe from having unrealistic expectations, or having been positively reinforced for exceeding expectations, you know, getting that excellent grade or hitting that sales goal or exceeding that sales goal. And so it can end up being that that has fed a part of us, but it's also fed the insecure voice.
David : Yeah. I know for me, so much of that is true, where my expectations or the expectations and how I have defined success are not accurate, or they're not really what I even want. Like, I know, for me that I don't have a business degree, but here I have several businesses. So sometimes that insecurity voice comes from that and the fear of failure of business, like our business has been growing ever since we've owned it. I read a ton of books, I have an amazing team. And the more that we grow, the more that it's been quieted, but at the beginning, that failure was coming up all the time. Because the imposter syndrome, who am I to do this? The expectations that I would place on myself like, wait, I haven't, like I think it took two years for me to get a paycheck from my own business. That was a choice. And I was in a position to be able to do that. But at the same time, like I was measuring my success by that, and it was unrealistic. Like, wait a minute, I haven't made my first million by the time I'm 40. Clearly, I'm a failure compared to all these other business leaders. But I'm going to plug in for our episode three, that wheel of life, like the success metric that I defined was only in that career financial, quadrant or segment of the wheel of life,
Mary : Totally out of balance.
David : But I didn't mirror it with my family and relationship measures of success, my mental and physical measures of success. So when you look at the whole picture, it was successful. So I would have been just the one area and I bring it up, definitely check out that episode. There's a worksheet. It's fresh on my mind, because I just led a seminar on that worksheet. But that definitely has been a trigger for me setting up this fear of failure because I've set unrealistic expectations, and they're my own expectations.
Mary : Well, it's cool, because I actually remember the first time you told me that you didn't have a college degree. And there was a total sense of insecurity that came through with it, like you were admitting something to me that was a dark shadow or something that you didn't want to share. And in my experience, hearing you share that four years ago or whatever. It didn't even faze me, like what you had done to get to where you were didn't matter to me. But it's interesting that in insecurity, so much of it is just a completely, like narcissistic experience, where you're just, what you've done or not done to get to where you are, I'd say lands less with the person that you're confessing to or sharing something you feel insecure about. And, in fact, if I was to share something like that with you, I bet you would experience the same thing where it wouldn't even really sink in as something that you should be insecure about. Because you'd be proud or just impressed by where I was at that exact moment. And then another thing I thought of though, was that a lot of times we're measuring success in numbers or letters, because I struggled well. I was a great salesperson. So I've been in business development, everyone will say that, right? They've been in sales or business development, but I actually did manage business development very specifically. And I exceeded the expectations all the time, not at the benefit of my health, to be honest, but I hated being assigned to the value of the sale. I really, really struggled with that. So even though I was doing something, and I was doing really well at it, ultimately, I felt so insecure all the time. Because, you know, one good day one bad day, and I mean, that's something that they talked about, and sales one on one, it's like, so tied to confidence and insecurity. And you have to be completely steadfast and not internalize or personalize it at all. And then the flip side of that I thought about too, was like, grades and degrees, and how a lot of that can determine what you set as a measure of success.
David : Yeah, you know, with both of those things, and we'll talk about this later. Because I do think it's a remedy for insecurity and fear is the relationship. So when I shared that with you, I had a relationship, it wasn't like the first thing out of the gate, there was a level of trust, before I felt comfortable to share that with you, level of relationship. But also, when you were just now talking about sales and being tied to a number, the number removes the relational aspect of the measure, right? So it's not that I know Mary, and Mary kicks ass, and she does great at sales and look at the numbers. And sometimes they're up and sometimes they're down is, hey, here's the numbers, are they up or down? And then Mary's worth is defined by that number alone, not by the relationship,
Mary : which I'm sure maybe some people would prefer that. So you know, it's just in my journey of understanding my own insecurity triggers. I realized that that didn't serve me. And that by removing that piece of the puzzle, and feeling like, okay, it just comes with focusing on what does serve me the actual relationship building aspect of business development, or the creative concepts, or the consulting or the conscious listening. I think that people are trying to shift it into that, that's the new way of selling. But regardless, when the quarter ends, or the year ends, you still have to acknowledge those. And that was, that's a good stretch and a good practice for me. But I recognize that that was a trigger, for sure.
David : Well I think that that's an exact example of what the third place can be. So on one side is measuring by numbers, and on the other side is measuring by relationships. And the third place being in the middle, like how you kind of incorporate both, because I've defaulted often in leadership with our business to not measure people. It's like, no, we're just, we'll keep working, we're doing good. And they're like, but how do you know that, you know, asking for measurement just so they had a baseline so that you would know to keep working. What I was so relationship focused, that I'm like, well, but the numbers don't matter. Let's focus only on relationships. And I know, by default, the numbers will grow because that
Mary : So we’re super similar, which I knew that, but um, it's kind of sinking in right now. And the last thing I really want to share though, before we even like, move on to our own personal relationships, because we've already talked about some triggers. But like, a lot of what I feel like insecurity is like a conditioned thing. It's been layered on us from birth. And so one of my true beliefs is that we're all really just born in a perfect essence, especially being a mother, like there's nothing my kid could do that would make me feel. I mean, I'm sure there's things that drive me nuts on occasion, for sure, I wouldn't deny that. But like, to me, he just seems so perfectly imperfect. And things like trauma or just things like relationships, it doesn't even mean that you have to have trauma growing up, I just think that things are conditioned and oftentimes insecurity and that voice of insecurity is echoing things that maybe we've received. And that feedback. And it can be a learned thing, and I feel like it comes from an external place. Whereas we were talking about how anger really is like an internal response. I think that insecurity might be a little bit of the opposite.
David : I'm really glad you brought that up. Because, you know, truthfully, there are definitely times in my life that are traumatic. There are definitely times as a childhood where I struggled, there are definitely times where I felt more fear and insecurity than at other times, and those are deep memories for me, but also in terms of major trauma. I don't have that many compared to a lot of people. So I would guess that even as an adult, your fears and insecurities could be additionally triggered by these moments of traumas or these memories that might pop up or someone said something the wrong way that triggers a pretty significant trauma, which then will trigger another layer of fear and insecurity.
Mary : No doubt. I mean, I think there's a lot there. But there's no question that even if someone didn't say something wrong, there's so much room for perception and communication, especially in the child, parent dynamic when a child doesn't have a fully formed brain or emotional body or whatever it may be. So, I mean, it's like we all say like, no matter what, we're gonna mess up our children in some capacity even. So there's just so much room for conditioned responses and that internalizing into this insecure voice, and that's something I can admit I'm pretty familiar with and it has been a struggle for me.
David : Yeah, so I mean, to go maybe a little bit personal memory, what are some triggers that you have.
Mary : So I tend to be like a people pleaser, I'm trying to drop that actually, and not worry so much about what people think about me. But I'd say that that's one of the biggest roots of my insecurity is that I want to make sure that I want to feel seen and loved, like, it's pretty basic, but that's pretty potent. So in order to feel seen, or or feel loved like that, the way that I used to define that is that I would maybe be overly adaptive or able to be like a chameleon in some capacity, like, whether it meant I needed to blend in or be super extroverted, or whatever it may be. So it wasn't that I was like, coming from this, like place of knowing exactly who I was, and then just inserting myself instead I was, and I still am someone that I feel like can meet anyone, and just really be a perfect match to them. So a lot of that presents in like, a bit of codependency so like my worth being determined by others perspectives of or responses to me, and starting to feel like Wait, what if my codependency was just with myself? and feeling like, okay, the way I think of myself, it's sort of like a not apologizing for who I am. More times than I can count, I'll leave an exchange with a person or people. And I will remember if I potentially said one thing imperfect, and I will beat myself up over that for a long time. I'll repeat that, even if the rest of it was a great exchange, I have this desire to be like, so perfect in relationship.
David : Right? Yeah, there's, it's so fascinating the way our mind works, because it just, whatever is the negative thing sticks, or whatever the positive thing is, doesn't like we could have on, you know, iTunes or whatever. I bet if we had 100 5 star reviews, and, and one one star review,
Mary : or even a four star
David : So, yeah, which one is the one that we, you know,
Mary : we're gonna like stress over the one star, the four star, no doubt. And even though that's like the greatest opportunity to evolve and change, and I think that that's part of what this is like, your insecure voice can be a reminder or a not so gentle nudge to sit with something and see how you react and respond to things. I mean does anything come up for you about triggers? I mean, I could go on and on.
David : Yeah, you can go ahead. I don't need to share
Mary : You're like the people pleaser in me. Please. You go on.
David : I touched on this earlier. But one of the triggers for me is that comparison. We live really in a heightened comparison world, like you know, on social media, Facebook, Instagram, We're not seeing real life, we're seeing everyone's best life. But occasionally we'll see someone that has a really bad day and they just kind of vomit to the world of how bad things are. But more often than not, it's everyone's best, you know, the selfie that they share isn't the first one on their phone. It's the one that they choose out of 10 selfies to make sure it's their best version that's being portrayed to the world, the dinner that they made, or the party that they've attended. It's because it's like the best version of that. And it's not something that is 24/7 but I think because Facebook is out there, or whatever, we're being fed this constant feed of everyone's best self. And so it's really easy to compare.
Mary : Yeah. And to think that is then being raw and honest. I think even the times that people post things that are more negative, I still think there's thought put into that that is like a filtered or sugar coated, negative share.
David : Yeah, definitely. I know,
Mary : I've done that, I do that.
David : Right. Yeah. And I'm not even saying necessarily that's wrong, like,
Mary : right, it's not,
David : it's not yeah, it's not wrong, I'm gonna do the same thing. And I want to present my best self. It's just that there is a layer of not realness in that. And maybe being aware of that. Like, I have this mantra that comparison is the thief of joy. So when I get stuck in this mode of comparing myself, then that's when it zaps my joy really quickly. Like I read an article some, like a week ago, someone I know, was nominated top 40 under 40. You know, I'm like, crap, why didn’t I win that award? I should have won that award, I am good at what I do. So like, immediately, My mind went to a comparison of why didn't I get that? Why didn't I get that acknowledgement? Instead of, well, this is a friend of mine, that was really cool. You know, so. But it just was that comparison or going back to the success of how I want to run our business. The people that I look up to, as I've kind of pulled that apart in my own head. Because I did this once as an exercise. One of the things I realized, all these people that I looked up to that were like, yep, that's a successful business person, I want to really be like them. The one commonality of like, the 10 people that I listed, they were all at least 10 years older than me. Oh, well, and that alone was like, right, so how am I comparing myself to that person? It's already a flawed comparison.
Mary : I think that you touched on that, like, a lot of the insecure voices is understanding what makes you feel of worth and loved and seen all these things that we've said, because I'm hearing, there's such a clear theme with you that the greatest weight has been on that work quadrant of your life and your accomplishments.when it comes to doing and creating in that space, and that's just good to know that like, okay, so where does that come from, because I'm so similar. Like, I was such a good student, I was like, you know, top 11, I didn't want to say that I was 11th instead of 10th in my school because that was such a burn for me. Um, and it wasn't that I was getting fed negative things that pushed me to be excelling so much. It's just I got so much feedback, and that's the way that it's set. Like, you know, you'd have like, we would have ceremonies every time you were exceptional in a class, you'd have a ceremony. think about the opposite word that didn't even ever exist. Of course, I want to do more of it. Because I feel so seen, and I feel so acknowledged, and it's like, Okay, I'm worthy, and I'm valuable. And that's like, for me I have a similar thing that excelling and work has helped so much weight and that when work is not good. Like, I'm not good. And that's been a very hard thing to try to cut, or to just put back into reshift into balance because ultimately, like, it's not about what you do, it's how you be.
David : Right. I like how you brought your son up earlier because when I think of that, like we hinted that these are learned. And at some point the question is when, like at some point when did we learn that we don't have worth and again I know that everyone's home life, there's good versions, and there's toxic versions of that. And so we're all coming from different places. Even in the best, there's a point where all we again, going back to we all feel fear and insecurity, at what point even in the best home situation, did we lose that childlike innocence. And I mean, it's like, that's what we should be striving to go back towards is this childlike perspective of the world. And the way we see other people is just, that's a person and I love them. That's it.
Mary : Yeah, I mean, there's even this whole thing called positive parenting that I've seen pop up every so often, like, a lot of the language that we all use, just instinctively, can be coming. You know, you've heard of this in therapy or other things, I'm sure but like, you're supposed to come from a place of I instead of you. But on many occasions, kids are saying, like, they've heard you're being a bad kid, or the sentence starts with you. So then that's an immediate way of internalizing, oh, it's my fault. Right. And that's one of the things that in diving deeper into insecurity, I learned in the world of psychology, it's called cognitive distortions. So these are the lies that we tell ourselves, and they present themselves in three different ways. There's emotional reasoning, where you, like, you mistake your meaning or your feeling for the reality. Another one's mind reading, where you assume you know what someone's thinking or feeling. And then there's personalization, where everything's about me, it's self blame. It's all about me. And that way we instinctively can speak to children. And it's not even oftentimes, probably not even coming from a place of blame is the personalization piece. It's the Okay, this is my fault. Everything's my fault. And it starts immediately. I can't think of more examples right now. But I know that I've been trying to shift where it's like, I'm feeling this because of an action rather than Sawyer, this is your fault, or you're doing this so then I feel bad. It's like, No, I'm feeling this because of that. It's not you, you are perfectly good. You're perfectly imperfect. And I'm helping you navigate your complex feelings because we are complex as ever.
David : The mind reading one, I think is one that, that's a toxic habit that I have seen show up where I see, like, I'm projecting my thoughts on what I assume what someone is thinking. And I think, often it comes up in like texting, because, you know, it's like, that's a version of communication that is right away. So I might text someone, I think I've even, you know, texted you like a song that I like, and then the next day you respond, but the whole time like, oh, man, was that song offensive? Did you not like it? Maybe you don't even like me anymore. Like, you know, your mind can spiral. I think really fast.
Mary : Super fast. Yeah, and and I think that's what's hard about this day and age that we're in, like, that makes me think of my friends that are even dating right now. And like, talk about not having a framework to understand like, what the reality is, and I think that one of the coolest things I learned and diving deep into these cognitive distortions, especially the mind reading one was that what you have to do is first, you know, kind of diving into some of these remedies for insecurity be one of the first things that you we try to encourage is like, catch yourself, that's really hard to like, know, when you're talking shit to yourself. Um, and then once you do start to, I swear, it's like, you start to realize, like, wow, I'm not being a good friend to myself at all.
David : Hmm, I love that. How do we be friends ourselves to you in this whole like, space
Mary : Well, that's something that I decided a few years ago is like, hey, I wouldn't talk to a best friend like that. So why am I talking to myself like that? And I try to remind myself like, what if I was my own best friend. It sounds so funny. But like you have to sometimes the, like a bystander in relationship to yourself, and that's what will help you recognize when you're talking shit. And then, you know, let's say that you're doing this mind reading thing. And you're just assuming that you know what someone's thinking or you were starting to date someone and texting them. You have to sort of like, pause and go from a fact driven place rather than an intuitive place, which has been really hard for me because I feel like I pride myself in being someone that goes by my gut, but that tends to be very emotionally driven and the emotion, piece of insecurity is somewhat feeding the fire rather than if you can silence that intuitive gut place and emotional place for just a minute. And really put that thought on trial and say, Okay, what are the facts here? Like what's actually going on? And oftentimes, the facts in itself, just that practice alone can silence the voice and make you be like, Whoa, that was not mine to own.
David : Right. Yeah, that kind of works with that texting example, as well. Like, the fact was, maybe I texted someone and it was dinnertime. And of course, it was gonna take a couple hours for them to reply back, right? Like, the fact was my emotional reasoning made me feel like things were facts. But in actuality, they weren't like the facts told a different story.
Mary : And it's also like validating that you probably have a learned response to that maybe I respond quickly, because I am someone that does that. Or maybe you sent an email, a charged email to a boss or like a colleague or a friend or something, and then they didn't respond for a long time. Like, can you, talk about sitting with insecure voice, like, I can't tell you how many times I've put something out into the universe, and I just have to wait for the response. And so maybe it was learned that like, that wasn't met with compassion. And it could be that even something as subtle as sharing a song had that same theme of feeling like it wasn't going to be met with something positive, because that's what you had learned.
David : Right. Yeah, this all reminds me of that old proverb, the mind makes a wonderful servant, but a terrible master. And it's like, so how do we tame our mind? How do we use our mind in this great space and the complexity of it, but understanding that it should be a servant, and not the thing that drives everything? Like how do we know how to tame it?
Mary : Woah, that's the first time I've heard you say that. Yeah, mind teaming is pretty much what we're talking about. Because if insecurity comes from my cognitive place, then this is clearly a mind taming action. And one of the ways that I've tamed my mind is, fake it till you make it, we've all heard this. So it's like, actually, what if you were to approach a situation from a really confident and secure place? And sort of coupled with that is mantras that help you get to that place? So let's say that, you know, in the example of sending an email out to someone that you felt like you were really being honest with yourself, but you're insecure about it, it's the first time you've done it, you haven't been that honest with this person before. And you have to wait, like, ask yourself like, what would be a response or would be a way that I would sit with it. If I was feeling really confident and really secure right now. Like, would I keep repeatedly checking my phone to see if there's a new notification for an email? Or would I probably just go on with my life and trust this? And so then from that, you can create a mantra that has a positive twist on it like I am confident or I am not concerned, or I don't even like actually saying I'm not concerned, because that's a negative thing. But it's like, I am confident that what I had to share or had to request was of worth and I will go on with my day.
David : Yeah, no, I think that the whole servant master thing that we just said, like the insecurity voice gets stronger as it gets repeated in our own head. So like the fake it till you make it, it's like to combat that voice. It's not that, well, I shouldn't have sent that email where it's continuing to repeat. No, I should have sent the email I was coming from a place of this is how I felt and this is what I need to address and continuing to rest in that positive voice or, you know, the insecurity of, maybe you're starting a new job like, crap, what am I doing? Like, why did they hire me? No, they hired me because blah, blah, blah, and you keep repeating that mantra. So even if you are feeling that negative voice is overcoming to put your mind in its place to tame it. And no, I am confident because they hired me because of xy and z. And you keep repeating that, until that confidence voice can take over that insecure voice.
Mary : Yeah. Because I mean, if confidence is the antithesis of insecurity, right, or the remedy for it, and insecurity is doubt, then what's the opposite of doubt? I think immediately of like self trust, or like internal knowing, and just feeling steadfast in that and a lot of times that's practice with feeling safe, because maybe things have happened repeatedly that were patterned that made you feel like you couldn't be safe and that there wasn't a sense of trust for yourself and who you were and what gifts you have to offer. So finding that, fake it till you make it from a trusting place. And that it takes practice, like, so I was thinking that we were talking about like politics really briefly, I tend to avoid the news because I get emotionally charged. And so I just decided that like, what news comes to me is the news I'm supposed to hear. But I get really insecure in conversations about politics, because then I lead with intuition rather than, like actual education or being in the loop so much. So feeling unprepared is a trigger for me. So the art of just practicing and putting yourself in that situation and repetition, whatever it may be, whether it's a conversation about politics, or doing something new, like us starting this podcast, the more that we record, the repetition really starts to soften the insecure voice. So I just wanted to acknowledge it can be as simple as like, yeah, that a lot of people say it's the first step. That's always the hardest. But then, as you practice, like, practice does really serve in silencing that voice and realizing, okay, I've done this before it becomes muscle memory.
David : Yeah, well, in preparing for it, like you said, the thing that causes the insecurity, so then you face it head on, like, if you and I just recorded a podcast and just had a conversation, I think we'd feel insecure, and it would probably come through, versus we do spend some time and usually, the more time we spend on an outline to walk through the conversation and at least hit some of the bullet points, the more secure that we feel about it.
Mary : yeah, and, you know, feel free to tune into the first few episodes to see the evolution of that.
David : No, no, no, don't tell people to do that.
Mary : I was trying to practice I'm faking it till I make it.
David : The truth is someone last week sent us a message that they loved our current episode, and then they went back to listen to the first episode. And Mary and I were like, Oh, no. That first one is probably not that good, we’ve evolved a lot. And the next morning, I got in my car, and on the way to work, I listened to our first episode. And you know what? It was really good. Yeah, but man, it was good. And it still is relevant. And yeah, so I don't know if that's a shameless plug of go check out our first episode again. But no truthfully, like, this is us doing the journey with everybody else. And you know, that's a real example of where our insecurities went. So I like that. it seems like there's like three things that stick out that are good tools. Put your thoughts on trial, kind of, it's like checking the emotion and the logic. Fake it till you make it. So even if you're not, if that insecurity voice is strong, think of mantras in a confident voice so that the insecure voice gets quiet
Mary : And embody it like actually, like I think some of the things that you can do besides just saying it, like, think about the person that exudes confidence to you. Like what are the traits of that person and try to embody that because if you're more visual, words don't always land with people.
David : Right? Yeah. And then making sure that if you see something to go ahead and face it head on to be prepared for it to shed light on the shadow I think is a good way to say it.
Mary : Yeah, and do it a lot.
David : Yeah. I think that just kind of as we wrap this up, I started with we all have fears and insecurities, every one of us. I think one thing that helps me is thinking about that also from the positive. We all have gifts to bring to the world. And again, going back to like how do we enter in this creative space or the third place like we have so many gifts, every one of us has a gift. And what I'm hoping to do is that this episode speaks to helping that insecure and fear voice be quiet enough so that they don't limit the gifts that you're supposed to bring to the world. So understanding and starting with that truth that we all have gifts and please please please bring them into the world. The world needs them.
Mary : Yeah. In embarking on being self employed over the last year I had one woman tell me that she helped me especially being a people pleaser. She helped me reframe that. Like what if what you were doing needed to be heard by one person, and then suddenly I felt like I was doing something for someone else rather than from a selfish place, which mind you, I think that coming from a selfish places is a great place tonight, and I hope to be doing more things that I feel like serve me. But that was like my first step to just start, because then I felt like, Okay, what if I could? What if someone didn't hear what I had to say? Or didn't hear what they needed to hear? Because I just didn't say it. And that made me feel like well, then I might as well say it.
David : Yeah, that's good. Yeah, I would also then add earlier, we said that relationship kind of is helpful, right? That we talked about our own stories, we talked about the number, but here it is, like, who can be that accountability partner? Or who can really be that mirror? You know, like, I would say that when I was talking to you about the not college thing, like, at that point, there was that trust that was established, and you were able to be a mirror, and reflect on Well, this is who I see. And sometimes I know that I've been able to do that with you. And my best relationships are those that can help me be here. So I know that relationships are clearly a gift. but can you find someone who can speak truth and love both the positive and the thing, because we need the negative feedback, as well if we really want to grow, but seeking out the relationship that is in this trustworthy space, this loving space, I think is a big key to facing our fears and insecurities.
Mary : Yeah, cuz they can remind you, I think that the first person that told me to befriend myself and not talk shit to myself was someone else. Right? So it was that they were like, Oh, I don't like how you're talking about yourself right now. So it's important to have partners and relationships and friendships, that you can be safe. And be vulnerable. Hopefully you guys like this. I'm not insecure at all.
David : Well, I was gonna say like, I'm looking at the time and this podcast is definitely our longest episode. You know, but I think it just speaks to how big this topic is. Yeah, there's just a lot to unpack. I think that again, we all face it. So
Mary : yeah, and please do consider following us on Instagram at the third place pod. We're also on Facebook, and we have an awesome website where you can access a lot of the blogs. So we've been blogging a ton about each one of our topics and then creating some worksheets that can help you at home. to process this information. Any and all feedback ratings and reviews on Apple podcasts or good pods, anywhere you listen is welcome. Be well.
