Ep 35 - Reframing Sensitivity: An Enlightening Interview with HSP Advocate Julie Bjelland
If you've ever been told "you're too sensitive," you're probably immediately hearing that as a negative comment. But being a Highly Sensitive Person (HSP) is actually an innate and highly unique trait, and as HSP expert Julie Bjelland points out, it is not a disorder, but rather a trait that has helped us to evolve.
Nearly 20% of our population is considered Highly Sensitive, and in our conversation, we learn how to understand the experience of an HSP so that we may tap into the gifts of sensitivity.
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TRANSCRIPT:
David: In today's episode we unpack the trait Highly Sensitive Person or HSP with our guest, Julie Bjelland. This episode was a little bit personal just because Mary is an HSP. Julie is a psychotherapist, host of the HSP podcast, and founder of the Sensitive Empowerment Community whose mission is to create a paradigm shift where sensitivity is embraced, valued, and honored. Empowering, sensitive people to recognize access, nurture, and share their gifts, her blog, books, and courses offer valuable resources. Let's welcome Julie to the Third Place Podcast.
[Intro-music]
Mary: We welcome you to explore the third place with us.
David: It is an invitation to the gray space, a space where deeper connections are fostered through challenging, empowering, and engaging dialogue.
Mary: You will walk away with a deeper understanding of self, equipped to engage with others in life's complex conversations.
David: Thank you for listening.
Mary: We invite you in to the third place.
Mary: Welcome Third Place podcasters. This is Julie Bjelland. I am elated to have you onboard because not only have I been a member of your community and been following your newsletter on being HSP. But it's just provided so much language for me that I hadn't had prior. So, just to dive right in, you know, can you tell us a little bit about yourself and even give some context around what in the heck I mean, when I say HSP?
Julie: Yes, thanks for having me. So yes, HSP, we call short for Highly Sensitive Person, also known as sensory processing sensitivity, scientifically known as that. It's a trait that 20% of the population have an amazing trait. And it's really part of my mission to create a paradigm shift around sensitivity so that we really start to value and honor it in the way that it needs to. Because it's we really evolved as a survival strategy of the population where needed in the world. And I'm a psychotherapist and I founded the Sensitive Empowerment Community because we have to be together and talk about it, normalize it, validate it, you know, because we're only 20% of the population, a lot of us feel misunderstood. And many of us have gotten messages that something's wrong with us for being so sensitive. So it's really a part of my mission to change that narrative and help empower sensitive people because I believe that we're needed, and I believe we need to get more HSPs in leadership roles. And, you know, the gifts of sensitivity need to be in a lot of places. So that's kind of my mission.
David: For those of us that are in the 80% when you say highly sensitive person likes sensitive to what?
Julie: Well, it is sensitive sensory processing sensitivity, there's actually a scale of sensitivity. So if you score very high up on that scale, like I do, your experiences are even different than those at the bottom of the scale or in the middle. So, one of the things to understand is that we even have brain differences. There are things that are different about us as sensitive people. We have more activation in certain parts of our brain, like the insula, which creates a really high level of conscious awareness. We have more activation in the brain mirror neuron system, which means we're literally firing the same neurons as the people that we're observing. We can read micro-expressions and body language that most people miss. So we have a lot of extra information and that was really why this trait evolved in the first place is because we needed a group of people that were paying attention to all the details that had extra information.
I like to think of it like if we live in a tribe out on the land, there was HSPs, who were the guides, the spiritual leaders, the healers, who could tell like, is this a safe place for the tribe to be where can we find good food, good mates. You know, somebody that's paying attention to extra information and details. We also have more activation in the amygdala part of the brain, which creates a fight-flight-freeze part a little too often in a lot of sensitive people because the world's not set up for sensitive people. And, we all experience it a little bit differently. But some sensitive people can be impacted by bright lights, loud sounds, textures on clothes, you know, tags on clothes, things like that.
Mary: That's fascinating. This the first time I've heard that it was like a survival evolution. And I'm wondering like this 20% how is that number identified? Because I feel like a lot of people have gone undiagnosed. I don't necessarily love using the word diagnose, but they don't have that language like I mentioned. Like is that coming from those that are and are not probably aware of being HSP?
Julie: Well, I'd like to clarify that it is not a diagnosable term of like a disorder. It's actually a trait that we're born within. And it's found equal in gender, and it's actually been found to exist in over 100 species, they've already identified that so far. And about 70% of us are introverts and about 30% are extroverts. So it's not the same thing as introversion. And I think that's another thing to clarify, it's not the same thing as shyness.
Mary: I didn't even think of that because I'm such an extrovert. So, I am HSP. And, you know, I've selfishly brought you on to sort of have this conversation so that I can bring this to the forefront and be able to have that conversation more candidly. But when I took your quiz online, Julie has this amazing quiz that you can help identify like where on this scale of sensitivity do you lie? I tested as a sensitive empath, which I think that you said that you were the same, or that that was some of the messaging I got. Can you touch on that scale and that spectrum and where people can lie and how it can present?
Julie: Yes, so those that score highest on the scale of sensitivity, are what I call HSP empaths that have even extra information, like, for example, to read the language of energy. And a lot of sensitive people who score up high on that scale, even don't always realize that other people don't experience the same thing that they experience. So, the information that we have is extra. So sort of like the higher you score on the scale, the more gifts you have, but often the more challenges you have to because a lot of us have not been taught how to protect our energy, for example. So we're sort of always emerging into other people's energy. A lot of HSPs tend to be real people pleasers and helpers, and want to fix everybody and everything. And so, that merging becomes a problem because our energy is not separated and being taken care of. So a lot of what I teach is how do we keep that separate so that we're able to take care of our own energy, our own balance, and wellness?
David: Yeah, that whole balance thing, like to me, even in some of your descriptions right now of HSP, there's kind of this vise and virtue of that coin. Like there are lots of things about it that are really beautiful, and honoring and bring gifts to the tribe, you know, to better all of those around us. So, what was the moment that you realize you were HSP or you had that language? And how did it present to you both positively and negatively?
Julie: Yeah, I mean, I definitely grew up as a really sensitive child. And, I want to make a quick note about that, because the research is showing that sensitive children, when given the right types of support, actually thrive more than non-sensitive children, which shows why this is not a disorder. And, we're less likely to have anxiety and depression. But most of us were not understood and supported in our sensitivities, and I wasn't. So, if we're not supported, we tend to have more anxiety and depression than those without the trait. In fact, they think about 50% of clients in therapy have this trait, even though it's only 20% of the population.
So for myself, you know, I grew up with that message that, you know, why are you reacting like that? What's wrong with you? Why are you so sensitive? And so, when we're given those kinds of messages in our childhood, we grow up thinking there's something wrong with us. And I did struggle with a lot of anxiety and depression. I think that's why I'm so passionate about helping HSPs now because what I found to be incredible, is that people that have been suffering for years with anxiety and depression, once they actually understand the trait and learn tools to support the sensitive nervous system, they actually get better really fast. And that is really exciting to me.
So I learned about it, probably, I don't know, I'm thinking maybe in my 20s, I started to learn about the term and the trait. Because this dates back to some of Elaine Aaron's research was back in the ‘90s when she first came out with talking about this trait that she discovered, and she did have a lot of research about it. So, I cried when I learned about it. Because it was like, oh my gosh, there are other people like me, and there's a reason why I'm like this, and there's an explanation? And so I got really interested in particularly brain training techniques because there are ways that we can retrain ourselves so that we're not in a reactionary place because HSPs can sometimes when we're not balanced, feel really reactionary and have issues in our relationships and work in all kinds of places.
So, learning how to create the pause, reflect and respondibility changed my life and growing self-compassion because a lot of us if we were raised, you know, if we had that message that something's wrong with us, then we are not being compassionate with ourselves. The self-talk tends to be really negative. And I had to train my brain how to feel self-compassion. And it really changed my life. Because when something goes wrong in your life, or you make a mistake, and you're hard on yourself, it's like adding 1000 pound weight to the problem. But if you actually have compassion and you can sort of walk yourself through that experience with, you know, sensitivity and loving, nurturing kindness, you recover faster. So, that's a huge piece in my work is teaching people how to grow self-compassion.
David: Yeah. Well, and I know, like, for me, as a male, try to tap into that, like, those are things that I'm trying to grow into. You know, it's fascinating to me to hear you talk about your experience growing up, and people asking you like, why are you overly sensitive? Why are you overly sensitive? And I would think that for men if it's equal, that's even a harder question. Because at least as a woman, there's a little bit of the stereotype that plays in that you're allowed to be a little bit more sensitive than maybe the male population can be.
Julie: Yeah, you're bringing up such a good point, because especially in the United States culture, one of the emotions that we allow with men is anger. We allow anger, but we don't allow sensitivity. So, if all you're allowed to express his anger, all your sensitivity is going to be channeled through that. So this is where I want to create the paradigm shift. It's like, if you think about a lab test as being a sensitive lab test, that's a good thing. Like, we want it to be sensitive to pick up on the little details and data. So I'm trying to share this trait is a good thing. My vision is that this is something people put on their resumes at some point that this is a valuable thing that I'm offering you.
David: Yeah. We need to make sure that you connect with our Rare Breed friends. So part of what you're saying is if you're male, this could present itself as extra angry or an unhealthy version of anger?
Julie: Yeah. And addiction, also. It’s part of my theory that I would think that if we did some research on that area, a lot of people who have struggled with addiction maybe you know, HSP sensitive people. Also, what's surprising to some people learn how to cut off their emotions, because it's too much. So some people can be surprised, like, what do you mean, I'm a sensitive person? I don't feel anything, you know. So that's something they just sort of cut off, which also causes problems, obviously, in relationships. So there's a lot of areas to explore here that I think are really interesting.
Mary: Yeah. So one of the first times I had a positive switch on the idea of being sensitive. So I have always, you know, grown-up being highly sensitive and being told I was too sensitive in male-dominated leadership roles. Like I was in leadership roles, and that was always kind of looked down upon it was frowned upon. And it was something that I was trying to suppress and felt like something was wrong with me, and then sort of exhibited itself in chronic anxiety and chronic insomnia. And, I still have a lot of like, somatoform things that I do, that sort of helped me cope.
But after I had a traumatic brain injury, I went to a cranial sacral therapist, and she taught me that it was actually a gift because I was more receptive to healing. So while yes, I'm more receptive to energies that can be negatively influencing or anxiety-producing, that the opposite was also true. And that was like, so life-giving because you know, she was treating me for a brain bleed. And I also had my right and my left hemisphere were actually completely off-kilter. And within two sessions, I had almost regained that homeostasis again. And, that was the realization that just on the flip side, that vulnerability that comes with sensitivity that sort of just like worked into it also made me highly receptive. So it was about choosing where I was getting that input that was crucial to my own journey.
Julie: What a great example. The research actually shows that HSPs tend to be able to benefit the most from therapy, from self-help programs. I mean, I used to work with both HSPs and non-HSPs and I was always shocked at how quickly HS peas could progress in anything. If you gave them the right information and tools, it was just so fast. I mean, they could do something in a week or two that took a non-HSP months to do that. That ability of having all that extra information is so important. And a lot of sensitive people experience things like they'll go to the doctor and say I have all these symptoms and the doctors are like, oh, none of this is showing up on the test. And then they get invalidated for their awareness.
I actually have a letter to give for HSPs to give medical and mental health professionals because they need to know about this trait. We need to avoid the misdiagnosis that's happening. We need to avoid, you know, people getting medicated for things that they shouldn't be medicated for, simply because the practitioner doesn't know about this trait. So, what a great example for you to share that. That's that insula too it's like that such a high level of awareness.
Mary: Well, I love that you brought up that letter because I actually shared that letter with David two weeks ago and I said, “This is how you can understand me more.” Did that help bring into context, David? Because like, I felt like it was such a comprehensive way? So to like, tell our listeners just a little bit more, it's a letter that like you could provide someone that's in your caring community or a medical professional. An example is I was treated with chronic insomnia, and they tried to give me Trazadone. And then the Trazadone wasn't working, it was doing the opposite effect. And so what they did is they basically just said, okay, well then take two or three times it, and it did even worse.
And this letter sort of will help brings to note sooner than later that I probably needed a quarter of the dose. And I found out that myself through diagnosing that that was what I needed. But this letter is just so powerful, Julie. And I thought it was so cool to not only bring context to medical professionals, but it was something that I've now shared with friends because it just gives them an idea of what I mean when I say it because I've been using HSP more and more in my conversations.
Julie: Oh, that makes me so happy. I've got goosebumps, just my heart is filled with happiness hearing that, because that's what I hoped would happen that we give some language to how do we share about this? And, you're absolutely right, me medications are not studied and created for sensitive people. And, it's really important that we learn how to advocate for our needs and try out like with my doctors and medical practitioners, I always tell them about the trait. I educate them about the trait. And I say, wherever possible, I need to try something natural first. And that tends to work a lot better for sensitive people. Because I've heard countless stories of sensitive people on medications that are hurting them, and causing a lot more problems than they had before the medication. So, I'm super passionate about this. I'm glad you're bringing that up.
David: Yeah, and that language is always helpful, you know? So I think the letter does two things and, and kind of exploring HSPs. And just like your story married, where give you the language to be able to say, ah, this is what's kind of going on inside me. But then to be able to, Mary when you shared that letter to be able to give language to me too. So that we could have a common kind of starting point so I could understand just a little bit more. And it affects how I can respond.
Julie: That's beautiful, David.
Mary: I'm wondering, so you know, you mentioned addiction, I'm thinking about it more as it's kind of painful to me to be highly sensitive, most often, just because I'm at the start of my experience with it and trying to navigate it. And it really sorts of became apparent to me after I had my kid. And that was like sort of the big shift into it. But the addiction conversation comes up because I feel like it's like because it's so painful because senses are so heightened, I would imagine a lot of that is like just trying to like, dole it a little bit. Like turn the dial down sounds to me like a breath of fresh air. Because it's hard to be in a state of awareness that is so intense so often.
Julie: Yeah, and people don't teach us how. Like, imagine if we had learned about meditation and mindfulness in grade school. You know, if we learned some of these…I raised two sensitive children, who are now on 19 and 17, as we record this. And, I was just talking with them the other day about how amazing it is to witness them grow and learn tools about supporting their sensitive nervous system when they were younger. They learned these tools from me. That it's so fascinating because the challenges that they may have experienced when they were younger are not there now. And, I find that fascinating. And the more we learn how to balance a sensitive nervous system because the overwhelm, and the intensity is usually the result of the nervous system container.
I like to think of it as a container being too full. So, if you think about the nervous system as being a container, you know, hundreds of cups of data and information is put into that container every day for a sensitive person. And for somebody without this trait, just a few cups. And this is why it's so essential that we have daily alone time that we actually practice balancing that sensitive nervous system through mindfulness, meditation, time in nature, all of these things. because what's really fascinating and I was so excited because I'm at that highest, and as well. And I thought that I was gonna be in a lifetime of pain. I used to walk around thinking that I just felt like I was this open wound all the time, I felt and experienced everybody's pain around me. I had my own pain, I didn't know how to manage it. I had overwhelm, anxiety, depression, all of it.
And what's fascinating to me is that the more you learn how to balance a sensitive nervous system, and you're not doing what the 80% are doing, you're doing what works for you. And this is about changing cultural mindsets too that you reduce your challenges with sensitivity. Like I find that so amazing. Things that you would normally be, like if I'm not balanced, I can even be bothered by the texture of my blanket. And if I'm balanced, I'm not bothered by that texture. It's just fascinating or even overwhelm, like being able to be with groups of people or anything that would normally overwhelm me. Now, because I understand how to balance a sensitive nervous system, I don't feel that overwhelm. I don't get that anxiety. I know how to listen to… That's another thing is we know how to listen to early body cues. And so if you're taught, okay, I feel this, what do I do now then you're ahead of the game, because you get to you get that information earlier.
David: This is all just so super fascinating. I mean, one of the questions relates to something you said earlier, and what we're just talking about. I'm trying to think through an older generation of men that were in my life that I'm like, oh, were they HSP, but never had the language, learned how to suppress it all. And now just they're like, bitter about life in general, because it's like, they have no outlet. It's really making me think, is there this generation of undiagnosed HSP? You know, how do I approach that person where they might not even recognize it's real because the language is so new?
Julie: Yeah, you're right. And everybody knows an HSP. I mean, it's one out of five people. So most people have somebody in their family, friends, coworkers. Everybody has an HSP in their life. And this is why it's so important for us to change the way that we see sensitivity. You know, like, I used to have people say, well, maybe you should use a different word because sensitive is such a negative connotation in our culture. And I'm like, I don't want to use a different word, I want to change the way we see this word and change the way that we understand it. That this is an incredibly valuable trait. And to be able to empower ourselves within sensitivity is huge like to witness people getting empowered. It’s amazing to me when you can change that narrative what can happen and all these gifts that you have inside of you can, you know, emerge?
Mary: Yeah, I like the idea of, reclaiming the word sensitivity. And, you know, this last year, right, 2020 was momentous for everyone. So can you put a little bit of context as to how that may have been experienced by that 20% population of HSP? I'm curious for myself and probably want to be validated a little bit.
Julie: Yeah. I mean, I used to kind of see two paths emerging for the sensitive community when we had all of this going on. And, one of them is that there's a group of HSPs, who are dedicated to learning about tools and growth and empowerment. And, this is the group that is using that opportunity for… Because I think that when we're going through something that's so difficult, and this is a global issue, that we either swim or sink. And, many HSPs have been able to swim because they've been given these tools ahead of time. So a lot of people in my community, it's been wonderful to watch their personal transformation. And I believe in almost like a vibrational energy that we can lift each other up in the world. And if we're vibrating at a lower frequency, everything is going to be more challenging.
But if we can raise up that vibration and power ourselves in this experience, then it's amazing what's possible to learn how to be vulnerable to protect ourselves. Because a lot of HSPs have trouble being vulnerable because we're just like this open receptor. We don't understand how to sort of protect that precious energy that we have. And learning some of these things are incredibly life-changing. Just learning about the trait is life-changing. The messages I get from people who have just learned about it are all the same. It's like, “Oh, my gosh, I'm, I'm reframing my entire life.” It's like changing the way I view myself. And that's a really powerful thing to do.
So we feel things incredibly deeply and if we are high up on that sensitivity scale, we have to learn how to protect ourselves and our energy in order to survive in the world. And we can't constantly be giving, giving and giving, without also first taking care of ourselves and our needs. So you talked about things about females in business, I'm actually wearing a shirt today called, it says, Empowered Women, Empower Women, because we just did a business event for a bunch of women, for female HSPs. And, you know, it's absolutely essential that we empower each other and inspire each other for the change that's needed in the world.
David: Yeah, I love that phrase. And I've come across it a few times, just because of our work with women-owned coffee plantations around the world, in the coffee roasting business. So you mentioned brain training and where and how to protect this energy, right, this need. Even when I think about so much of the work that I do in businesses about the social aspects too, like, how do we use coffee to empower women or whatever project? How do we use the tools of business to make the world a better place is a lot of the work and even the birthplace of this podcast for me. But one of the things that are I think important about that is so many people I know that are trying to help other people don't do that hard work of first taking care of themselves. So part of what I'm even hearing too is that's that much more critical that someone with HSP really does that self-care work that really blocks off that time that really creates those boundaries. What are the brain training or tools that are specific to protecting that energy?
Julie: Yeah, that's such a great thing to talk about. It’s so essential for us to understand. And what I found really fascinating is that the brain like if you think of the brain as being two parts, the emotional brain, and the cognitive brain, for an HSP, the emotional brain can become so activated that the cognitive brain goes to sleep. And within the cognitive thinking brain is memory, and facts, and rational thought. Within the emotional brain is irrational. And so learning techniques that wake up that cognitive brain backup, for example, even just a breath technique, the four to seven breath technique I teach, you inhale for the count of four, hold for two and exhale for seven, noticing that the exhale is really long and slow. Now that sends a signal to your brain that you're safe, you're not in danger. We don't want the alarm bells to go off in the brain. And, it can actually shift, it can actually reduce your heart rate everything.
So it's quite fascinating when you understand. You can also do things that purposely and intentionally activate calming centers in the brain. And when you're activating a calming center in the brain, you're automatically deactivating stress centers, because they can't be activated at the same time. I mean, that really excites me to know that, you know, things that I'm doing intentionally like maybe I'm spending time within nature every day, I'm practicing gratitude, I'm filling up my positivity tank.
I talk about the positivity tank a lot too because if you have a positive tank and negative tank, the negativity tank just gets filled up on its own with all the stressors of life. But the positivity tank, you have to put things in it intentionally. And it takes up to 20 seconds of focusing on something positive to actually go in there. And we don't really do that naturally. 20 seconds is a long time. If you notice a beautiful sunset, do you spend intentional time really soaking that in? And if the positivity tank is filled up through mindfulness through the present moment, awareness, things like that, even focusing on my cat, my dogs, these are things that support my, you know, the negativity tanks. So if my positivity tank is full, I can handle what's in that negativity tank. So these are just sort of some examples.
Mary: Oh, man, I'm just laughing because the other day I was talking to my husband, I said, if my positive regard bucket was full, then the feedback bucket wouldn't have overflowed so easily. I literally use that language. I think I even like to express it. And I felt so proud of myself for being able to put that to words, because I think what's hard about being HSPs, sometimes until you know, finding your work and just sort of living and breathing, it's nothing that can be avoided, right, is that you're in such a hard space and in such a somatic vibrating world, that having the language because you're in the emotional brain not in the cognitive brain can be hard to access. It’s really hard to be able to like translate the experience to something that can be understood.
So, you know, part of the things that I started to realize as an HSP to diagnose myself was that you know, I tried things like I would turn my Wi-Fi off when I was sleeping and that actually started to help me fall asleep better. I started to have transition time between meetings because if I have too many meetings, I get a migraine or if I have too much screen time I get migraines. A lot of the triggers translated in painful ways migraines, insomnia, anxiety, right? I'm wondering like, is there anything else you can share with our listeners that can help them ask themselves am I a highly sensitive person and should I explore this a little bit more? Like what are other cues?
Julie: Cues about sensitivity?
Mary: Yeah.
Julie: Yeah, I mean, I think most people can kind of know that they fall into that. But do you know, if you're somebody that feels so much compassion for others, and you're one of the first people to jump up and help and you feel really strong injustices in the world like you're really impacted by that? And maybe you struggle with feeling really emotionally reactive about things. I definitely think everybody that has anxiety should be screened for this trait because most people who have anxiety have this trait. And the other thing I want to throw out there, that's really fascinating too, is when the emotional brain is activated and the cognitive brain is asleep, the brain interprets facial expressions differently. So you can actually be looking at your partner, and if you're upset, you can actually think that they're a threat, like your brain is seeing that what they're saying and doing as a threat. So obviously, that causes a lot of problems. So having the awareness and the language that you're talking about it.
And I always tell HSPs because it's so fascinating, we tend to be very externally focused, and have an issue with perfectionism. We want to get things done right and we want to get it done right the first time. And when we're so externally focused, we're worrying a lot about other people, and we're not paying attention to ourselves. So if you're somebody that struggles with your own self-compassion, you struggle with even knowing what you need in life then it's going to be hard for you to advocate for what you need and get your needs met. So I always say, every time you go to the bathroom, ask yourself two questions, how am I doing and what do I need? And over time, you actually get to know like, when I started, I didn't know anything about what I needed. I just pleased everybody else. You need that? Okay, we'll do it. I don't even know what I need, we'll just do what you want. And that was how I live my life. Which is why it causes depression for so many people because you're in like this empty soul, you know? And we want to empower you to be yourself in the world and to love who you are.
Mary: Yeah, it's like this, like weird dichotomy of emptiness and heightened experience. Because I'm the sort of person that if I watch something, like in Colorado, there's the boulder, boulder, right, it's this big 10k that people come to do a huge run. I actually can't go to those environments, I will be crying. I'm so moved by the collective energy of everyone I'm crying the entire time. I remember the first time my husband and I rode our bikes around this 10k I was crying. And he's like, “Are you okay?” And I couldn't stop because it was the intensity of that amount of people in the crowd, I think is just another thing that I started to realize, like, clearly, I'm sensitive. And also a mantra that has helped me is the whole, it's not mine to own and recognizing what's mine versus what's someone else's. And, even identifying what I like, or what I need has been a journey in itself, for sure.
Julie: Yeah, it's beautiful. And you know, we feel everything more intensely, not just the challenging negative stuff, we also feel love and all the beauty of the world more intensely. And I found that most of the time HSPs and I used to be like this, too, that when we feel intense emotions, it's overwhelming to us in so many ways. Because a lot of times we have a judgment about it. We’ve been given messages, you should not be acting that way. You should not cry that much, you know? And so we start to think like, oh, this intense emotion I'm having is wrong. So now we've added that label to it that causes that 1000 pound weight of pressure. But what we can do is, is change that into compassion, like, you know, self-compassion, like, okay, yes, I'm acknowledging, I'm feeling this. And that's okay. Like, let me normalize and validate that, and just acknowledging the emotion reduces the intensity by 50%.
David: I hear so much of that. And again, I think it's qualities to be striving for it to be more compassionate, to live in a world that's more compassionate, that's more in tune with other’s needs. You know, even hearing your description just now I'm like, oh, is am I highly sensitive? And I think if the answer is no, but I think I'm sensitive, you know? And I think that those are all good, and certain things to keep striving for. Final question, though, for those listening who are friends with Mary or have friends like Mary, how can we support Mary as an HSP?
Julie: What a great question. And I also want to go back to the sensitivity thing. We often tell males to take the sensitivity quiz, as if they were a child, because before society changed how you should view sensitivity, so that's just a quick tip. But in order to support them, and what a fantastic question even asking somebody how can I support you? You know, and being a supportive listener is such a great thing to do and to, you know, to be able to support somebody who's sensitive. We don't want to fix or change them. We just want to offer support, if we can. Like, is there a way that I could support you right now? Even just asking that question, even if it's your partner or your friend, asking that question is a powerful thing. And then just listening, not diving in to fix but just sitting and listening how can I be supportive? What a great question even that's healing. Having somebody ask you that question is healing because you're being incredibly kind and validating just to even ask that question.
Mary: Yeah, I couldn't agree more. I mean, I'm sitting here grinning, like, oh, that in itself feels so satisfying and satiating, like, just yeah, just the that coming with that curiosity, and that intention to just let an HSP be an HSP. And, sort of not providing any extra context, because clearly, it's already probably been processed for the HSP.
Julie: And not getting uncomfortable about their emotions is a big one. Because a lot of people get so uncomfortable with the emotion, they're like, I have to dive in and fix it and change it. But just letting yourself hold the space that they can have that emotion. We just did this event talking to companies and organizations about how do we support HSPs in the workplace. You know, providing quiet areas for them to be, not expecting them to be in meeting after meeting after meeting and giving them opportunities to ask them what works best for you to share your ideas? You know, giving them a way to do that. Maybe they want to email you after a meeting with their ideas, instead of jumping in the middle of a meeting. You know, being able to open and know that diversity is so needed that we need groups of people who have HSPs within the group. That's the reason why this evolved in the first place is because of this extra valuable information.
David: Yeah, well, this has been, I think, for me such an enlightened, helpful conversation. Julie, I know that we're going to have a lot of people that want to know more about your work and how to be in contact, can you share with our listeners, how they can be in touch with you or where they can find more of your work?
Julie: Yeah, so you can go to my website, JulieBjelland.com, or if you don't know how to spell that SensitiveConnection.com. I definitely recommend signing up for the Sensitive Empowerment Community. That's a beautiful place to be incredibly normalizing and validating to be with a group of sensitive people. And then you can check out my courses and my podcast and tons of stuff on my website, lots of free stuff on my website that supports sensitive people as well.
Mary: Yeah, I can speak to that personally, that I have taken advantage of that fully, especially that letter. I think even if just that will probably add that letter to our newsletter so that all of our listeners can have quick access to it because it's just one of many things that I think that you're doing is very potent. So thank you so much.
Julie: Thank you. I believe in a grassroots movement, that together, we share and educate about this trait and validate this trait and the value in it. So, by sharing that letter, it's like, that is such a great way to validate your experience with your practitioners and think about all the people that come after you that will be helped if you have educated people about this trait. So, this grassroots movement, create this paradigm shift of sensitive empowerment we're all doing it together.
Mary: Yeah, we're a part of the club.
Julie: Yay.
Mary: Thanks, Julie.
Julie: Thank you.
Mary: Be well.
