Ep 17 - Acknowledging 2020 Fatigue with Stories of Love and Hope
Listen in as we "feel all the feels" of our current moment in time. Whether your candidates won or lost, the reality is that only one thing is clear... there is a lot of work ahead to create the space for the hard conversations we need from one another.
So, we give pause to feel. And as we do, we feel inspired to push deeper into the Third Place... to create space and keep "going there" into dialogue that is uncomfortable. And while it will be difficult, these are the conversations that also bring HOPE
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TRANSCRIPT:
Mary : We welcome you to explore the third place with us.
David : It is an invitation to the gray space, a space where deeper connections are fostered through challenging, empowering and engaging dialogue.
Mary : You will walk away with a deeper understanding of self equipped to engage with others in life's complex conversations.
David : Thank you for listening.
Mary : We invite you in to the third place.
David : Well, hello, everybody. Welcome to the third place podcast. It is Tuesday, November 10. After the election, most people think we have a winner. And yeah, we just kind of wanted to pause and acknowledge it, where the space that we're in, in this present moment. And clearly, I think one thing that we realized is through this process of the election, even though there seems to be a winner that Biden looks to be the next president of the United States, regardless of the outcome. We're a country that's still pretty 50/50, and how we feel where the direction of this country is going, which only for me emphasizes this work. It emphasizes the podcast, it emphasizes that we've got a lot of work ahead of us. I think there's a lot of people that feel hope that we can begin to heal. I think a lot of people feel frustration that we're going to go in the wrong direction. And I think regardless, the one thing that's in common is we got to figure this out.
Mary : I also love how you said that what's clear, though, is that there's just divisions still right. And when there's so much lack of clarity right now, that is the thing that we are walking away with knowing for sure. So, you know, when we were talking on Saturday, when news started to drop, started to flood everything. we said to ourselves, that, you know, this is the opportunity to allow everyone to feel all the feels to feel sadness, fatigue, excitement, joy, confusion, whatever it may be to allow yourself to feel that. But then on the flip side, it is such a strong reminder to keep doing the work that we're doing and the work that you're doing. That is about connecting and uniting.
David : Yeah, you know, I want to pause and just share a clip from this past week's Saturday live opening. So they had Dave Chappelle as the guest. He actually was the guest from four years ago, the week after the results of the election came in. And which, that was a pretty powerful episode. So they brought him back in. And you know, Dave Chappelle, I think most people know who his work, he certainly can be pretty crude and raw. But he's got this brilliance of bringing truth to light in a way that's just, I think, super profound and thought provoking, and unique. And he certainly did that at the end of this clip. Where, and I and to me, it's all the third place. So let's, let's just tune in real quick.
Dave Chappelle clip from Saturday Night Live 11/7/20 : “I would implore everybody who's celebrating the day to remember, it's good to be a humble winner. Remember, when I was here four years ago? How bad that felt. Remember that half the country right now? still feels that way? Please remember that. Remember, that for the first time in the history of America, the life expectancy of white people is dropping because of heroin, because of suicide. All these white people out there that feel that anguish, that pain, that mad because they think nobody cares. Maybe they don't. Let me tell you something. I know how it feels. I promise you I know how that feels. If you’re a police officer. And every time you put your uniform on, you feel like you've got a target on your back. You're appalled by the ingratitude that people have when you would risk your life to save them. Oh, man, believe me. Believe me. I know how that feels. Everyone knows how that feels. But here's the difference between me and you. You guys hate each other for that and I don’t hate anybody. I just hate that feeling. That's what I fight through. That's what I suggest you fight. You have to find a way to live your life. Find a way to forgive each other. You got to find a way to find joy in your existence in spite of that feeling.”
David : So yeah, feel all the feels
Mary : That's exactly it. He put it so perfectly. I think that the thing that I've loved about Dave Chappelle since the Chappelle show, was that he had this perfect balance of making you feel uncomfortable, uncomfortable all at the same time. Like it was like naming things that hadn't been named, but giving you permission to dip your toe in, and know, it's not going to be fun. But that's okay. And I think that's really what we're trying to invite you into is that there's going to be discomfort in our hope for growth. And ultimately, even though there's been a lot of discomfort in this last year, and far beyond that, to both David and I are feeling really hopeful and really charged to keep pressing on.
David : Yeah, and I just love, like how we connected. I mean, he's speaking as a black man to officers, police officers who right now are an overgeneralization, but they are on different ends of the spectrum. And he said, Yeah, I feel this. And these feelings suck. And it's not that we hate each other because we feel them. It's because it is we feel them. And let's hate those feelings. They're wrong.
Mary : Instead of the people inside personifying it. What if we focused in on the feeling?
David : Yeah, yeah. So just know that we're gonna keep pushing into this work, and, you know, kind of self promotion, like, share or work with people, if you have friends that you don't know how to have dialogue, like, we want this to be something that you can share, that maybe helps to start dialogues, you know, even looking ahead next year, for February for March, like Black History Month, and International Women's Day is in March, like I really want to take deeper dives into those topics and go pretty deep. So but in a way that's approachable in a way that, you know, we can really wrestle with and get outside opinions and just continue to have these hard conversations, but in a way that we hear each other maybe for the first time that we see each other maybe for the first time, and we begin to learn the tools to have the harder conversations.
Mary : Yeah, and through those harder conversations, on the flip side, oftentimes is a feeling of love and hope. So with that being said, to segue into what we're offering you today, we are about to do something really different. So you're not going to listen to us talk and give you our insight into things, we're actually going to provide some stories that have come from a wide array of people that are sharing their experience of being in or witnessing love and hope. And it includes My mom is sharing your story, my brother sharing a story and a couple other people that have come through that have remarkable stories, and everyone has so many to share. I hope this is just the start of a series where we can actually share more of these and really hear how on many times discomfort really breeds a feeling of love or hope on the other side of it.
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David : So we just acknowledge everyone's feelings that you're feeling. And just thanks for listening.
Mary : Thanks for listening, and most importantly, be well.
David : Our first story today comes from Nidhi Mehta. Nidhi is a former television production and writing professional and writer of children's podcasts such as six minutes and Molly of Denali, the podcast. She's a supporter of those trying to conceive, preemie moms, educating on women's health, and sadly or not the New York Giants Mets mix. You can follow her on Instagram @updatesfromdowntown or on twitter @halfpintful. She just started sharing her journey in hopes that her experiences bring light, perspective and humor to the average or most difficult of circumstances. That's welcome Nidhi to the third place podcast.
Nidhi : As parents, we like to believe that we'll teach our children lessons that help them live happier, more fulfilling, well rounded lives. It's not too surprising though, that often it's our children that end up teaching us, and that's usually the case with our son and two daughters. I was really starting to loathe Sundays and quarantine, not just because the Giants continue to be heartbreakingly terrible, but also because we tend to lack nursing care that day. See, my husband and I are parents to 3 25 weekers that means not only are we often outnumbered by tiny, adorable tyrants, but also that those tiny adorable tyrants were born at 25 weeks gestation, for different reasons, and despite many, many precautions. And when you're born that early, that small, you face an innumerable amount of risks and challenges. You also face a risk of not coming home at all. We were so, so blessed that all three of ours did. preemies are fighters and micro preemies, they're the thing that's beyond that, whatever that is. We have micro preemies and after over five months in the hospital each, they were able to come home but not unscathed. feeding tubes, developmental delays, heart conditions to start the list came home with them with almost a dozen therapies a week and diligent care by their little army of physicians, nurses, therapists, social workers and hands on loved ones. They've come so far, so far, they don't cease to amaze anyone in their paths, even their greatest of cynics, including their mother. So that particular Sunday afternoon, the kids were sitting together for their snack like they always do. My son, we’lll call him Ali here. He was getting his 4pm g tube feed Hermoine his older sister, who we are attempting to wean off her feeding tube had a dry diaper, which meant that she hadn't really done a great job of hydrating herself. In the absence of their nurses, I administered my son's feed, a laborious process most days that day included. At the same time my mom who we had been lucky enough to call in for backup masked to the nines of course Thank you COVID took care of hydrating hermione through her feeding tube. And for those of you who have never seen a G tube before, it looks like a little button that sits on the left side of the belly. It opens and closes, you can insert a tube with the feeding. Ali's twin sister Olivia sat between him and their big sister Hermoine, she was happily eating her goldfish as she does. And thank heavens for that because we had our hands full with the two bs. While my husband worked on making dinner in the kitchen for being outnumbered in the room. We were doing pretty well. Well, if anyone was betting that I thought that too soon you you win. Out of nowhere, came an ear piercing gut wrenching scream of absolute pain from Olivia. It was so sudden and so shrill that it got an impressively quick reaction from my under caffeinated self. I disconnected Ali's tube extension for a second and shuffled quickly over to Olivia tube and syringe still in hand. Olivia was lifting her shirt and holding her belly. Is your stomach hurting? Does it hurt here? I asked. No no no. She screamed. Let me see, point to where her all the regular mom isms? No, no piercing my ears yet again. Suddenly, I noticed something that wasn't pain in her voice; it was anger, sadness. Meturnpoo in belly meternboo is a word that my in laws have passed down to my children that means water. She starts crying again and grabs Ali's tube extension out of my hand. then proceeded to put the insert on her belly button still crying, pleading meturnpoo in belly. It was adorable. A heartbreaking and so telling of how we operate as humans. You see Olivia is our only non g tuber she escaped getting a feeding tube by a week. Right as the twins were finally being scheduled to be transferred to New Jersey NICU almost five months into their out of state NICU, let's call it residency. Out of nowhere, Olivia decided that the bottle was her jam. The NICU called a couple of days after consistent eating and said she didn't need the g tube after all. Unlike her older sister, unlike her twin brother, we could bring her home. There's so much more to that part of the story. But relevant to this story is we were thrilled that at least one of the kids wouldn't have a G tube. As we were dreading it after our early g tube experience with hermyeni there were failed feeding programs, constant concern of agitating their oral version motor delays associated to G tubes and lack of oral feeding, failure to thrive concerns and the list goes on and on. It's a lot. And you worry that even when you as a parent are giving it your absolute all it won't be enough. And that was the feeling when having just one kid that has medical issues and a contraption that is quite literally sustaining their life. That felt stressful enough, the thought of having to Oh, boy, three, how? For any parents of kids with special needs, knowing how amazing your kid is, and thinking no one else will see that because they'll be shunned for their differences is a real fear, a deep one. On top of all of the health fears, there's that social concern just looming. So you work really hard at building their confidence, hopefully building your own at the same time, making them believe what you know that they are just as good and strong and able as anyone else. But man, having one of three not have to worry about a G tube. That was a huge relief. Anyway, back to yesterday, if you haven't figured out yet where the story was going, Olivia, our lone non- g tuber with the most honest sadness I have ever seen cried as she tried to be a G tube kid, cried because she felt different. She felt left out and it broke my heart and at the same time put my heart back together again. See, I'd never even heard of a G tube before hermoine’s NICU stay. Clearly I had my own bias and judgment simply due to my lack of knowledge and exposure. I feared how other kids quote unquote normal kids, ones without g tubes, at least, would react to or treat mine. And then here's a toddler who outwardly seems like a regular two year old who has been exposed to a G tube with her brother and her sister for as long as she can remember anything. And so she thinks it's normal. So normal that she wants one too. That Sunday brought two things to light. One, this is the most basic example of if we just keep sharing the things that make us quote unquote different, exposing them, educating on them, letting them be observed openly and as a regular part of everyday life. then while maybe those differences won't be so scary to others, but instead they'll pique curiosity and ultimately, the thing we all want acceptance. Different does not mean less than. Two, representation matters. Not being around any kids other than her siblings due to the pandemic. Olivia didn't remember that there are non tube-y children, a plethora of them running around the world. She thinks she's alone, a minority, when really there are so many more people out there just like her. The majority in fact, more than her current situation would have her believe as parents, especially as parents of children with medical needs. It's so easy for us to also feel alone. To forget that we're not alone. It's so easy to forget, especially during this pandemic. But there are so many others like us out there who empathize and sympathize. How lucky I was that Sunday, to spend it with my children, to be reminded by a two year old of how important it is to be open, and to share, share, share. So at some point, quote unquote different, just means an opportunity to teach or learn so that different doesn't mean alone. It means beautiful.
David : For this next story, we have the pleasure of introducing you to Mary's mom, Catherine Lurvick. Catherine is like a walking heart with a lifelong desire to build relationships and show honor and respect to one another. This compassion was instilled in her as a young girl when she was the primary caregiver for her severely disabled youngest sister. After getting married and raising five children, she became a licensed clinical social worker and worked for 11 years helping hospice patients. She's retired now, but after her work in hospice, she provided online support to cancer patients and their caregivers. So please welcome Catherine.
Catherine : My name is Catherine and I have a story about how love and healing really came as a surprise gift to me from my mom's time with dementia. The dementia that my mom had didn't cause her physical pain, but it did cause her mental depression, sometimes just that sadness, and that insecurity of feeling unknown, that your mind isn't dependable. She was such a delightful and loving soul throughout her dementia time. Not all people get to have that kind of delightful experience along with dementia, and because with cognitive loss, it's very tricky and unique for each person. I had been a social worker, a hospice social worker, when my mom was starting to show signs of memory loss. And so I had had a lot of patients who had dementia, and I saw that dementia can be really hard on the person who has dementia, and also on the entire family trying to figure out how to honor that person's wishes along with trying to keep them safe. So when I was growing up with my mom, she had always been athletic, fun. And she just found a lot of enjoyment in life, but really was great at being a good friend, and a good neighbor. So that's the kind of person that she was. But later, when she was in her 80s, she started having many strokes. And we really didn't know how serious it was when my dad was still alive, because I think that he was just covering up for her. But after my dad died, we found out that, you know, sometimes when she would be driving, she told us that she would just stop in the middle of an intersection because she couldn't get her bearings. She didn't know where she was going, even if she was going to a friend's house that she had gone to many times. So it was at that time that my brother said, Okay, well, I'm gonna take the keys away, you can't drive anymore, but she's in the house by herself and really wanted to be out and about with people. So that was a depressing time for her but she still went on daily walks and she still baked every day just in hopes that someone would drop by. And one of her walks she took one time was to go to the nursing home that was not too far from their house. And she asked to be a volunteer at the nursing home. Of course, they were very happy to have her there. But several times, the nurses found my mom lying on a resident bed. And then they would say no, you're not allowed to do that. And her excuse was she would say, Well, I just had to get flat. So it was something and that sometimes happens with dementia patients where they're just not aware of what's happening in their body, and that they all of a sudden feel the need to do something. So sometimes their behavior seems impulsive and erratic. But anyway, my mom wanted, even though she couldn't be a volunteer at that nursing home, she did want to live there then. So she walked there and took a deposit check to stay at that nursing home. But my brother didn't like that place. He didn't want her to live there. But instead, my brother suggested that she come and live halftime at his house and halftime at my house. And we both had a household of teenagers at home at that time. And of course, she was delighted to be able to come and live with that activity. She stayed half of the time of my brothers half of the time at our house. But we both, my brother and I, the bedroom for her was upstairs, which made it a precarious situation because we found out that my mom wandered in the night. And one time my teenage kids recall her coming down the stairs, somehow getting through the baby gate, and she came out onto the back deck in the middle of the night in her pajamas and bare feet and no teeth, and joining their teenage buddies on the deck for a sing along with my son playing the guitar. It is a very fun memory for them. But it also wasn't funny when at a couple of other times, she would just walk out the front door even if the door was locked, she could unlock it. And thankfully, each time a neighbor would find her and bring her home or we would go out scouting for her. But my brother and I were at our wits end, and he thought that since her twin sister was in an assisted living in Fargo, North Dakota, that maybe she could live with her. And even though it was a thoughtful idea, on the one hand, I really didn't like it because it was 1000 miles away. And I thought why have her so far away when their memory care places right here near us. And we could visit more often. But no, my brother thought that that was the best answer. And so the transition was made, and I helped her get relocated, but I really was angry. I resented the fact that none of her friends from her church or her neighbors, and even her grandchildren, were going to be able to see her hardly at all from now on. And that just made me sad. But yes, I knew she would have her twin sister. And maybe that was the important thing for now I didn't know I just knew that it was going to be hard for me. And it turned out however to be the best possible thing. Because I decided right then and there that I would fly to Fargo every two months to see my mom. I had one cousin who lived in the area. And we started connecting then. And in fact, my mom's twin has seven girls, none of whom I had had a relationship with because we hadn't grown up near one another. I had met them a couple of times as a kid and that was it. But I had always dreamed of being friends with them because I didn't have any sisters to be close to and the thought of a bunch of sisters sounded magical and fun. And when I started scheduling my trips every two months to Fargo, these sisters would make an effort to come and visit their mom at the same time. We had individually found out how really boring it can be to spend a weekend trying to communicate and relate to your parent who has dementia. When I would arrive from Denver on a Friday night mom would say Oh, there you are, how great to see you. How long are you staying? And then maybe after an hour of visiting, I would take a break and go to the bathroom and then when I got back, she would say it again. Oh, how great to see you. How long are you staying? She had these habitual phrases that she repeated all of which were full of love and kindness but none of my answers stuck in her brain. And it gave me a feeling of exhaustion and boredom, repeating the same things over and over. And it was just heartbreaking. There was no way to feel connected to her. It was just a real sense of loss. And my cousins were experiencing some of the same things. Their mom, however, was a whiz at Scrabble. She didn't show any understanding of the understanding of her children's lives like my mom, but she could beat everyone in Scrabble, every time. When my cousin's visited with their mom, while I was there, we would try to prompt our moms to tell us stories from their past. Each of them had a different recollection. And they would argue and fuss about who had the correct version. Each had a story embedded in their mind, and they would not budge. Theirs was the true one. My mom would say, I remember that I read the Bible cover to cover while sitting in the tree and grandma paid me $5. And mom's twin would say, No, I was the only one that climbed the tree and read, and I read the Bible through but grandma didn't pay me any things. It's my story. It's not your story about climbing the tree. So those were little stories that we would hear and enjoy. But most of the time, my cousins and I would try to tell them stories that we could remember, hoping that they would remember. And sitting there trying to bring up memories trying to bring up understanding. It was laborious and felt like unraveling a tangled necklace, slow, slow, work one deadend effort after another. I would say to myself, don't be on the phone, stay present. This is your time with your mom, you've flown 1000 miles now just be with her. Can just be with her? Having my cousin's there was such a reprieve such a relief and a delight. Being able to exchange glances, being able to switch back and forth between each other. Who has the energy now to ask a question or try to prompt something meaningful? Conversation wasn't something that could be had during this time. But being there is what we did, being there. And having each other ended up being a big gift in this next stage of my life also, because I've ended up being able to have these cousins in my life, ever since. One time several of these cousins were in the car. We were all together and we continued recounting how our mom's had raised us and had made bread and cookies and cake and rhubarb. Well, once we got going on talking about rhubarb, we were laughing hysterically in the car. Our moms who would find rhubarb in the ditch would make rhubarb pie, rhubarb crumble, rhubarb sauce, rhubarb wine. We couldn't believe that even though we hadn't known each other that we really had lived very similar lives. And I asked them, if instead of just being their cousin, I could be their sister. I needed them in my life. And it turns out that they needed me too even though they already had seven of them, they welcomed me as another sister from another mother, who was just like their mother, what a heavenly day and how my life has been enriched by their welcoming love. Who would have known that my mom's dementia and her move to Fargo would lay the foundation for a richer life. For me. The twins had their last two years on this earth together. And I have already had 15 years of extra love now from these cousins and sisters, and hopefully more to come.
David : This third story is from Mary's brother Johnny Clubberdans. Johnny has an innate love for the natural world and telling its story. This comes from the fact that he was raised in Colorado and lived between two homes, a cabin at the base of Rocky Mountain National Park and a ranch on the plains. Today, Jonathan channels his passion for storytelling through the art of filmmaking. Jonathan has contributed to hundreds of films as a cameraman and editor and has over 20 years of experience, the focus of his work now revolves around the energy industry, climate change humanitarianism and the arts. Jonathan was a TEDx speaker on the subject of his latest feature documentary film on the plight of the refugees from the war in Syria. Welcome, John.
John : Well, hello there, David and Mary with the third place podcast, thank you so much for inviting me to share about the subject of love and hope. So my story starts in college, I want to tell you a little bit about how I figured out what I wanted to do with my life, my passion for filmmaking was really sparked, through a coincidence, one of those experiences where you think it's something terrible. And it turned out to be the greatest thing that ever happened to me. So what happened is, I was in college, and trying to get into the business school with a minor in computer information systems. And I was about a year and a half into my program, doing my prerequisites when I got a C plus in macroeconomics. And unfortunately, I couldn't get into the business school with a C plus. And I had to redo macroeconomics in the summer. And I thought to myself, well, if I have to go all the way to campus to take macroeconomics, and instead of traveling off to Europe, like a lot of my peers were doing, I was well, forced to go to school all summer. And so what I did is I took a class, additional to macroeconomics in which I thought would be a lot of fun, and it turned out to be video editing. Video editing is something that I've always been curious about at that age. See, I was, you know, in my high school years when my brother would come back home with videos of his friend and him skateboarding and rollerblading, and he would put music to it. And I thought that looks like so much fun. I would love to try that. So I took video editing that summer, and boy, changed my life. The professor was super engaging. And I remember the first day when I walked into the class, and we sat down and there was a round table. And the professor said, Alright, I want you all to introduce yourself. And after you do that, tell us about what film would you make if you can make any film. It just got my curiosity going. And later, my dad helped me and I purchased a MacBook computer and I was able to edit films on my own. And later, I went to a church and purchased a very high quality camera for a great price. And it launched my career, it really did. So if I hadn't failed. Well, I didn't really fail economics. But I got that C plus, if I hadn't got that C plus my whole life would be different. So you know, when you're looking to find a career, and you're in college, and you don't know what to study, and for me, I chose business because the word to me meant commerce, money, computers, I chose because I knew there would be a future in computers in the world. And yet, I didn't know how to put business and computers to work until I learned that filmmaking was it for me. I just recently finished a feature film about the Syrian refugee crisis. And here I am nearly 40 years old. And I've got this feature film, which I'm screening for different communities around the country. And it's really exciting. I've just launched the film school. And yeah, the story of the Syrian refugee crisis was something that, wow, I would have never thought that I would have tackled such a deep and intense subject. And if it wasn't for my pursuing filmmaking, I would have never gotten into this career path. So the film about the Syrian refugees, it's all about love and hope, really, because in my opinion, any great film is about love. It's a love story, whether it's love for a partner, or love for in this case, a country, the love of Syria, but also the love of a family. So the family that I found in a refugee camp in Greece, had this great hope for reaching a place where they could finally feel safe again. They had seen just tremendous violence within their country. And they fled. And through an unbelievable journey of escaping death, in many instances, they reached Greece. And at that time, over 10 million refugees are currently attributed to the war in Syria. And 1 million of those refugees reached safety in Germany because Germany opened their arms to them. And a lot of refugees had heard that Germany, and also Scandinavia was a place where they could potentially feel safe again and belong again. And of course, they were offering a lot of amenities, including education, a place to live. And so a lot of these refugees got stuck along the way, when Germany finally said, That's enough, we can't handle any more than a million, and they shut down their borders. And at that time, millions of refugees were stuck in the process of trying to relocate mostly by foot. And a lot of times through illegal means using smugglers. And yeah, this family, wow, they sure stuck together and, you know, being with them and spending the whole year with them. It was amazing how it made me miss my family and appreciate the love that my family and I, we share. And finally, in the film, it tells the story of this family who, through unbelievable means of smuggling themselves through multiple borders, they did reach safety. So that hope was actualized in the story, and yeah, I think love and hope. What else do we have, really, we hope for health. And we hope that everybody can live, you know, with the kind of basic human rights that we all deserve. We're all born here. And we all belong here. So, in my opinion, we should all look out for each other. We're all in it together. So thank you so much, Mary and David for inviting me to speak on this subject and I look forward to hear more of your wonderful podcasts. Take care now. Thanks a lot.
