Ep 02 - Dayenu and the Wheel of Life
Many businesses have gotten good at answering the question, "Why do you do what you do?" The more you, your customers and your team members can answer this question, the better you will be able to connect your work with other people! But have you ever stopped to ask the question personally? Why do YOU do this work? What about it makes you light up? Why can't you walk away? Being a part of a community minded business is REALLY HARD! Understanding your personal why can help shape other aspects of your work.
RESOURCES:
TRANSCRIPT :
Mary : Hello, thank you for tuning into The Third Place, you've got myself, Mary and my dear friend, David. We're so excited to be having this podcast because as we were even prepping just now we thought to ourselves, let's just get after it. And let's tackle it. And instead of sort of editing and thinking through things, let's just throw it out there and be raw and real, because that's the essence of The Third Place. So, today, we're going to dive into a topic that brings David and I back on many occasions, and it's the foundation of the way that we operate. And it's also the foundation of us trying to inspire business owners to operate. And that is backing into why you do things and how that fits into The Third Place.
David : For me, when I think about a third place business, or a business that has this new way, so to speak, a business that has more of the community in mind, whether that is just creating spaces for conversation or, or really just realizing this social impact that we're all a business that is a part of a community locally and globally. When a business has these aspects in mind, it's just harder. And so, a lot of businesses have done a good job over the course of the last several years asking the question, why do they do what they do? And we're learning. Simon Sinek wrote that really great book start with why just the better a business can answer the question, why you do what you do, the more success that you'll have, the more opportunity that you'll have to connect with your customers, the more opportunities that you'll have to attract really great talent, because more and more people as the millennials and Gen Z's are entering the workforce have that we've really transformed why we do work. It's not about how much we make. And that's a transition. We're in a transition period, where obviously paying your bills and being paid a living wage is important. But more and more people, they want that purpose. They want that passion. And that is so much of what this idea of third place is about, more community minded businesses. And so when a business has a clear why they do what they do, now all sudden, you can attract amazing talent.
Mary : And amazing and loyal consumers, right. I think that you just touched on something that's really important is that consumers are far more seeking why you do things versus what you're doing more and more. And that's why the most progressive brands are leaning into advertising or not even advertising, but leaning into the founder stories and the pathos of a brand. And that that's what a consumer is attracted to, that keeps them loyal, rather than just the one and done from here on out. And so consumers are smart, and they want to understand why it is and they want to understand the impact. And so no longer can you skip the why, you have to address that in the foundation. And from there, it will create more of a tribe mentality instead of those that are just sort of trial and error. Right.
David : So all that's a great exercise. And I'm sure that's one that we'll unpack in the future. But as I've done business coaching and helped other people think through starting businesses with social impact, or businesses with community focuses in mind, I asked people to ask the question for themselves, too. Why do you want to do this? Because doing this kind of business is really, really hard. It's kind of like you have extra rules. You're not playing the traditional capitalistic game, you realize that capitalism has some limitations, and you want it to be more inclusive. You don't want to just make money at any cost for you and your family. You want it to be impactful in so many positive ways, with everyone that you touch. So when you have those self imposed rules, it's just harder. Now, there's a lot of great success stories out there and a lot of great models to follow. But I think the more clearly, a person can ask why are you starting this business, the more it helps you through the bad days. Someone was just telling me yesterday, they were getting ready to start a business. You know, and I was super excited for them. And there are great days when you own your own business and their crappy days when you own your own business and that doesn't change whether you own your own business or don't everybody has great days with your work, everybody has crappy days with your work. So for the self-starter, those bad days, you got to have what are your touch points? And so when the better and more clear that you can answer the question, why are you doing this, the more that that can help you through the bad days,
Mary : Right? It's an anchor, it's an anchor to get you back so that you remember what you're doing and why you're doing and it keeps you on the path.
David : So I found this tool, it's from a guy named Zig Ziglar. And he wrote about this thing called the wheel of life. And basically, there's seven pieces of the wheel of life, and he has family and friends, career, finances, your physical well being, your mental well being and your spiritual well being. And the reason why he called it the wheel of life is they're all interconnected. And if any one piece is not healthy, it can throw off the whole thing. So you could have the best job and the best family and people who love you and are doing really well in all those areas, but you're not making any money, you know, and how many nonprofit people might be in that boat, it throws off the whole system, or, you know, the tragic stories, when you love your job, you make lots of money, have great social life, but don't have that proper work life balance and have not invested in your family. You can, the whole thing can fall apart like you might separate from your significant other and then there's a split in finances and just everything falls apart, the emotional pain and all that kind of stuff. So I think that, for me, was a really great way to kind of segment how I line up my personal priorities. And so that has been a tool to help me think through kind of how to set goals and how to see how they all align. Now, to me, I've modified it a little bit. I don't really believe that there's a spiritual bucket, I kind of grew up thinking that way. But the more I kind of go through this life, the more I think the whole thing is spiritual, there is no such thing as a spiritual bucket. So it's almost like it's an umbrella that covers all of these categories, and the whole thing’s spiritual. So when you remove that from the seven, there's six remaining. And then of the six, there are kind of like sisters. So the social circle is really your friends and family. So that's like this one relationship bucket has two groups that connect. Work is really your career and your finances. And then self-care is your physical and your mental and emotional health. That's kind of how I break it up. It's a little bit semantics. But for me, it helps me process just a little bit differently.
Mary : David, and I agree that everything is spiritual. And so whatever move you make it all interconnects. And we thought that it would be fun because both of us have done this exercise a number of times, but we figured in preparation for having a conversation and dialogue about this, that we should revisit and have the dialogue again and do the exercise again. Because this is an exercise that can be done frequently. Your motivation, and your sort of gauging of how you are doing or what you want to be doing can happen at any moment. And I actually did the Wheel of Life exercise two months ago. David said, why don't you do the Wheel of Life exercise again, when I had started to see the writing on the wall with losing my primary contracts as COVID started to surface and that became a reality. And I was feeling really confused and trying to find my anchor again. And at that time, I added other pieces of this pie that he mentioned. I added a creative piece of the pie and I added a community piece of the pie. And in revisiting it in this time, I decided that I could drop those and that they were also integrated as is and one of the biggest realizations that I had in this process was just the understanding of back to that same word that I said was everything's pretty holistic, like it all flows into the next and that to me really is the power of the statement that when one thing isn't in balance, the rest of it feels out of balance is that they all flow in and out of each other and that's the understanding of the impact not that you can't have things that are out of whack or out of balance and not feel some sort sort of homeostasis. But ultimately, when many things are not aligned with your personal why and with your motivation and your desires and your goals, then that's a time to sit back and revisit and remember that you're really pulling in one direction that may not be serving you and instead is truly depleting you. And the reason why you may be feeling a lot of burnout when you're trying to do something that's personally unconsciously and community minded.
David : Yeah. Another reason why we thought about starting with this well, one, whenever I do, again, the coaching aspect, this is where I start just because the personal so intertwines with your career and work, right. But this was also a great time. So essentially, starting a podcast is starting a business. So right, like, hey, wait, why are we doing this again? I mean, obviously, we love dialogue, and we have a friendship, and the conversations are often so rich and deep, we want to share it. And you know, again, continue to wrestle and learn from others as well. So that's certainly a motivation. But it was a helpful exercise just for us to pull apart like, why are we doing this, it takes energy from doing other things. So having an understanding why we're wanting to even do something like start a podcast, this was a great exercise for us to kind of unpack that. So you're kind of going to hear it in live real time. So you know, one of the things maybe just to point out real quickly as you start to unpack these questions, and we'll give a little bit of how we do that. This is one of the most important times to be honest with yourself. I always say like, if you're starting a business, because you want a Ferrari in the driveway, now's the time to say that. This isn't a time to say, oh, I just want world peace and I want to save the world. Like, I mean, if you want that, that's great. So put that down. But no matter what this is where you want to be honest. So if that's like, you know, having this huge house, and that's how you want to provide for your family, or that those are the things that are really important for you. This is not a judgment zone, this is just for you to use. And it helps you to put everything into this balance, and there is no right or wrong. It's you.
Mary : Well that goes back to The Third Place. We talked about the dichotomy and that third place is removed from the judgment of dichotomy. And so trying to reframe that for people is not going to be so easy. A lot of times, when I do practices like this, I try to find some sense of grounding, whether it's meditation, whether it's going outside to have an actual sacred space where I can be removed from the chaos of everything, or just feeling like it could be a conversation that I could lean on with someone that I felt like would would talk to me the way I would want to talk to my friend, my best friend or talk to my child. So that sort of best friend relationship with yourself. If you can try to find a way to channel that energy, then start the practice, or start the dialogue with yourself and the workshop, then I think that you'll find that you can come from a place of less judgement and being able to feel okay with the fact that if your goals are more monetary, or tangible, or what you may deemed as consumeristic, that that's there's no such thing, it's just a matter of of knowing what is your driving force and driving motivation and feeling most respect for whatever that could be, so that you can identify how to get there..
David : Yeah. What I thought I'd do is I'd share my career. And, we'll start with the buckets, like, here's so here's my work, and here's my financial and career goals. Mine haven't changed very much. I do want to have like, on the financial side, I am working to try to build a business that has some value to it. That's not because of personal wealth. Like I'm trying to build businesses that have some value and the main motivator behind that financial goal is so that I can help other people start businesses. I love being able to see strengths in people. And see opportunities or what's the best way to say that? Well, like the potential of people. I just love to see, like, even Mary, I remember when you and I were first meeting, like I was just blown away by the skill set that you have and the gifts that you have to be able to give to the world. And so many people can get caught into, not that our conversation was this but get stuck, you know, and sometimes finances could really help people get unstuck from seeing their fullest potential. So I would love to be in a financial place to invest into people. So I have a lofty financial goal, but it's not the personal side. My wife and I live a pretty modest, upper middle class, and we travel the world. And some of that has to do with coffee. And some of that has to do with my wife's work. And when you do that, we're millionaires compared to everybody else, and we're not millionaires. But you know, this is so rich, compared to the rest of the world, we're in the 99th percentile just in terms of world wealth. Yeah. So that's how my financial goals kind of align. And that hasn't really changed. Oh, that's pretty steady career goals. I love the work that I do now, because it makes money, but there's the social mission aspect. So at this point in time, my career goals still stay in that bucket where I can do both the social work, and the make money work at the same time.
Mary : Yeah, and you touched on the fact that knowing your personality type too, that I can't wait to talk about in the future, which is that you are such a giver, and an empower by nature. And so that's actually what fills your cup. So it's not coming from a place of like, you have to do that, it actually serves you serving others. And so I think that you hit the nail on the head with that you haven't changed much, also, David, how old are you?
David : 43.
Mary : Right. So there's like, you know, you've got 12 years on me where now I feel like, you know, I'm about to speak to my context of career and finance within this work bucket of the wheel of life. And you gave me this framework of like, think about where you want to be in five years, and then 10 years. And that's what I'm about to speak about is where I would be at your age and acknowledging that even one of the observations I had was that five years and 10 years were not dramatically different, that I'm hoping that the impact of my 31st year to my 36th year is pretty solid. And that that just creates this like new way of being and pattern for the 36th through beyond, right. So it seems like you did that work
David : You saying that out loud makes me think this may be around your ages when I started to wrestle with this question. Right? So then my 30s were all about setting it all up.
Mary : That's what you hear all the time is that, you know, the 20s are extremely painful. And the 30s are the time of my mantras, this whole internal knowing thing more and more where it's like, I just want to feel like I understand myself and I'm steadfast in my decisions. And that's very easy for me to do in the workplace. But when it comes to me, making decisions from a personal perspective, that can be challenging, and I think a lot of us struggle with that. And that's why I love this wheel of life. And when you're workshopping this at home, and you think to yourself, okay, what is my career? And what is my finance, you can think to yourself, how do I envision my current status? How do I envision it five years from now and 10 years from now, in a balanced setting? I don't like saying the word perfect, because I don't think there's such a thing. Yeah. So when I looked at my career. Which is interesting that we even started with this bucket, because I also think that we lean into work and career as a leading factor of who we are probably too much. That's definitely an opinion of mine. But that was the first thing that came to mind when doing this. So it makes sense, because that's how we've been trained. And that's what we're how we're operating. When we network. What do you do? What do you do? But I said, and I knew this to be true, because I did the Wheel of Life two months ago, but it was fascinating to see it stick. Now. I want to teach, I want to facilitate I want to have my career to the fact to be paid to teach or to facilitate and have conversations around people developing themselves, people developing other people and people developing their communities would be a dream. And I feel like this podcast is a part of that mission. And beyond that, the tenure scope for me was just more of that. The first thing I said was like I just want to do more of the above. And that from there. I also wanted to financially just create more streams of passive income. And that passive income to me is a blessing of abundance in itself and is not easy to make but would allow me to create space for more of the creative. And that creative work to me is in empowering and facilitating and teaching people to have more self awareness, more internal knowing and create spaces to support that within their network. Last thing I wanted to say was just that as a mother, my son played a big role in this picture too, and wanted to make sure that I could expose him to a lot. And so exposure is a blessing and exposure costs money, and time. And so that would mean that I would have to be in some sort of stable setting where I could take him to see more, through the form of travel, teach him to see more through the form of education or activities, and allow him more and more exposure to different and diverse cultures and vibrations. So that's where I landed with that bucket.
David : Well, and I mean, that right there also just shows how intertwined they are. So I wanted to go next was like, the family and social, you know, and the financial does certainly help out, like how you set up your family goals. And I think that that's why like, I always go to the Ferrari in the driveway analogy, because, you know, if that's something that drives you, sometimes that may not align with the family, right? In order to get that you have to work an insane amount of hours, which means your family isn't around, like, it just just doesn't work. My family and social buckets have dramatically changed in two months. Because of COVID. Hmm, like, my whole worldview is different. And I think that we have something that is traumatic, that's going on for everyone. And it's super disruptive. And not all disruptive things are bad. Like, there's good things. And we talked about that, you know, in the launching episode of, how does a business go through COVID. So for my family, my buckets have been completely disrupted. And it's super hard right now, we're all trying to balance like, two kids that are two years and under, and both still working full time and all the things. But in the midst of it just being crazy hard, the amount of time I've spent with my oldest, especially right now, that's two and a half, like he is just coming alive. And we have an acre of land. And I'm in the middle of finishing up a huge project with the house. And I've got like three or four big projects I want to do. And, you know, for us, the financial bucket of right, we're literally going through refinancing our house, we've got some good equity in it. And it's like, you know what, let's start all over, let's cash out, let's just get these projects done. Because it's built for play. Our house is built for play, and I want to play with my boys. I'm done trying to pay off as fast as I can. I want to make it the house I want to play in my family. So my whole priority is completely transformed.
Mary : That's super cool that you use the word play, because that came up for me like five times too. And that impact has come from I think COVID is definitely I'm sure many people are feeling that they want to play more and just enjoy the present. And I'm sure there are other reasons that that's been inspired too
David : Mm hmm. Yeah, and you know, obviously, like, what the thing that's hard for everybody. For some reason, this COVID thing has landed on political sides. I don't understand that. But this is hard for everybody. And it's so hard to not give people hugs and handshakes. And when we can get back to this place, and we can feel safe. Whenever that might be. I can tell you for everyone, this social bucket is going to be so much sweeter, like you and I had a trip planned to see and we were going to see each other and I was excited about that. It didn't happen. And I was bummed. But whenever that does happen again, it's again, there's going to be just sweeter because of it.
Mary : Yeah. And so you started to talk about your relationship bucket, right, and how that has been impacted by the career in finance, or the work bucket is that we call it in my relationship bucket I wanted less fluff. And I think that in your 30s again, so we're thinking, you know, we're talking from two different decades or different generations to some degree. And I think that that can be helpful to have these perspectives. There's a lot of sort of trimming the fat right now for me. So I'll share something really quickly. But I lost my father in the last month during COVID. And that was the closest loss I'd ever had in my network. And it was also the hardest thing I've ever gone through and that immediately put into perspective what I thought was already the hardest two years personally. I didn't realize that was going to be the tipper. So it changed my perspective completely into that play that we were talking about that I just want to play more. And I also want even more engaged interactions. and engaged interactions to me means less distractions, less technology, interventions less and less of the fluff that I was talking about. And more of just this like true authentic and raw connection that can also be in longer term exchanges, where you're spending a day or two days or trips together rather than just these quick sort of text conversations or quick hangouts. So I want more depth in the next five years, and I want to cut the fat or turn the fat of those that I can't have that depth with. And then the same thing was beyond that, I want to just have even more of that were, then my dream would be how can I then take that foundation into my local community, and I'll have a kid at that time, that would be. So that's in a decade, my kid would be 13. And I would love to be a pillar of support to him and his community and whatever that looks like in that time and hoping that I would have a little bit more bandwidth to be able to be an engaged parent in that way, too. So that was interesting. I never even thought because I actually, to go back to my financial, I wanted to be able to donate to my local community too at that time, and right now. I'm 31. Donating doesn't exist. I'm just trying to have some basic savings and something that makes me feel like if stuff hits the fan, like it just has, I'm going to be able to at least breathe through it.
David : Right. Cool. Yeah, it's, I just got reactions. This is why this is a great tool to use and a great tool to revisit on a yearly basis or whatever.
Mary : Monthly. No, I'm kidding.
David : Definitely takes a lot of work.
Mary : It takes a lot of work. Yeah, it is. It's rich, and it and it also takes time to process and then digest and then actually implement.
David : Right. So then this last bucket, the personal the self-care,
Mary : Which should be the first bucket
David : You're absolutely right. So we have the internal and external. I know for me that I've been working hard on the external for a little while. Again, they're all related. Like, over the last six months, I've lost about 15 pounds, and I'm pretty healthy. But I mean, to lose a little bit in the tummy area. And I got 15 more to go. But the motivation factor, and what's helping me see success in that is, again, the family side of things. Well, honestly, the career side of things like, yeah, I can't help but teach like you were talking about teaching. And I can't imagine not teaching for a very long time. Like, I don't know what, I don't know, if I can do retirement ever, right, I just want to teach and share and I've had so many rich experiences, and so many points of privilege, the only thing I know how to do with all of that is just to share as much as I can with everybody that I interact with. So that physical health component is just critical for me to see all these other goals through. So that's how I've, you know, been on the right track, I want to keep pushing into meeting those goals. And, you know, I love road biking and like that's getting back into that rhythm on a regular basis as a part of the physical goal. But what I love about road biking is that it gives me some mental space. I'm by myself, I'm traveling large distances, you know, a good chunk of time, an hour or two at a time. That gives me just the mental headspace to think and to process and let my emotions be whatever they need to be and just that mental space and the physical space just are so intertwined.
Mary : They're so intertwined. I mean, that was the first observation I had that everything I kept writing down for my self-care, internal and external. They each served the other. And for me, so there's this word that my family and I use, and it's called dayenu. It's from the Jewish tradition. And it means it's enough. So it's like if you were to start a meal, this is how I always explain it. If you were to start a meal and you had an appetizer, and it was so satisfying, and you loved it and it hit the spot. We would say ``dayenu''. Like, you know, if it was just for that we're content, we're grateful, we're happy. So, my mental and my emotional state. That's the word that I always lean into is like, I just want to feel that sense of like, a little bit goes a long way. And that abundance feels, I feel content with abundance and in a more modest manner. And that to me translates to less anxiety, less sort of desire that's consumeristic or things that make me have a monkey mind or repetitive mind and that helped me feel more steady and less like a roller coaster with my mental and emotional states. And then from there just that that would sort of lead me down a path of like more radiance and more sense of power and more sense of compassion and kindness. And that that would help get me there. And then the physical things, this is why it merged so much is that the things that help me manifest that is daily meditation and daily yoga and just said, it's, I want to become non negotiable. That's my goal is that it's non negotiable, and that it's not this dramatic definition of like, okay, you have to meditate for 30 minutes, or you have to do it in a certain way. It's like no, that you're sort of just like coming in that place. And even 30 seconds of something is like, okay, it's my daily way of being. And other things, obviously, in the physical that I could touch on are just being outside more in mountain biking more, and you know, those things that are very specific and near and dear to me. But really what it helps me do is just to maintain a sense of grounding and have a high energy and that I think, as we age, it's all of us just crave having high energy for a long time. And feel like we feel vital.
David : Yeah. I was telling Mary last week, I was stressed and just it's all the things, it's work, it's being a leader, it's and it was all manageable, but it just was taking its toll and I had an opportunity. The other outdoor sport I love to do is kayaking. And I haven't done it for a while. And it's weather dependent, and you can't really do it by yourself for safety reasons. So all the stars lined up, and I was able to go out kayaking, and touch the water like water is just such, its life. And when you sit on the water, it's amazing. And my goodness, it filled me up for like, I'm still on a high from doing that. And so being out in nature is just so critical. Again, all this connects so much.
Mary : Well. And when I took this authentic leadership course, there's this authentic leadership course at Naropa in Boulder, Colorado, it's a contemplative school. So it brings in eastern and western modalities or ways of teaching. And this course centered around all these different things that we're touching on now, but how to be the most authentic self and leading and inspiring followers and followership and we talked about how nature is pivotal for exchanges that are impactful and productive. But the teacher, her name's Susan, and I'll have to remember her last name and we’ll give her credit because she's beautiful. But she was like, you know, actually nature is within your physical body. So you can take nature with you, wherever you are, and that you don't have to go into nature to channel those elements and that balance and the impact of it.
David : You know, Mary, to go back to what you said, I, that was the first time I heard you say, abundance. And as I processed that it made me think of the word differently. So when we think of abundance, I usually think of that as a good thing. Like, if you have enough of something and you have abundance. But there can be this whole thing of over abundance to like if you have much wealth, it's then that you're taking from somebody else, there's just no way right?
Mary : But I feel like you're talking about conventional wealth in regards to just monetary because the way I was using the word abundance is actually redefining abundance to saying it's not monetary and it's not this conventional thing. It's more of what if abundance to you was measuring your levels of happiness or measuring your levels of moments that you feel joy or gratitude, or satisfaction, like less of this? Okay, I have two cars and those things. I feel like it's maybe less tangible, and it's more of an emotional weighing of abundance.
David :Yeah, but I think I was processing all that. I think we go back to work so quickly, just because that's what we're trained to do. But when hearing you talk about abundance in relationship with Jewish, it's enough context, dayenu was like, Oh, that's where like this balance is because you can not quickly find over abundance, like great family, spend time with your family, then you'll not have deep relationships outside, if you only do physical, like there's a version of each one of these things that what is enough. And then if you savor what gets you to enough of each one of the buckets that allows you then to savor the enough of the other things like reading about the course is like the appetizer, which would be amazing. If you had an overabundance of the appetizer, then you wouldn't get to savor the dessert at the end. Right. So there's this whole thing is just what is the thing that gets you enough of each of the categories?
Mary : Yeah, the wheel of life. Right? The Wheel of Life is saying what is your benchmark? And your realistic benchmark which is, I'd say realistic is far more modest and less extravagant and depleting of other resources. And more just like, Okay, this feeds my soul, and less of this feeds what I think I should look like, or this feeds what I think I should, what should feed me. So, yeah. That's cool. I didn't even realize that dayenu would bring us there. But it is important to be able to understand where we're coming from. Yeah. So coming from a place of modesty.
David : So we're gonna share a worksheet with the show notes of this that walks through the wheel of life. I think this is a great way to end. One of the things that you want to do when you think through your buckets and the different segments, is, what is abundance for you, what is enough for you of each one. You want to set goals, I think that you can achieve, you just mentioned that. So and then you know, the whole abundance and enough is that they need to be balanced. And we've touched on a couple times that Mary and I are in a little bit different stages of life, there are some similarities. Sawyer is three and Parker for me, is two and a half. And so there's some commonality there. But the pieces of the pie, so to speak, are not always going to be equal just depending on your stage of life. So balance doesn't mean equal. But I love just balanced and achievable as we think through those. We'd love to hear feedback of people working through the sheet and wrestling with it. And there's no real right answer here. This is just a great tool to get things started.
Mary : Yeah. And so use these stems to grow your thoughts. And from there, I think the next thing we're going to tackle, which is a huge conversation is just then how to set goals around each of the buckets and how to make those goals impactful and make them purposeful to just serve your third place.
David : A beautiful conversation as always.
Mary : Thanks, David.
David : Yeah, yep. So now I'm just that much more excited about the next one, I think. Yes, let's go! Let's talk. There's so much good stuff coming. So thank you for joining us. We'd love to hear feedback as you all work through this too.
Mary : Be well
